Fiction_L Archives (2002) - Books paying for themselves

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Books paying for themselves
Dates: 4/27/02,11:00 AM through 5/9/02,3:33 PM (23 postings)

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FROM: "Quillen, Christine" <CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us>
REC'D: 4/27/02, 11:00 AM

Thanks,

C. L.

C. L. Quillen, Librarian
South County Regional Branch Library
35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004

FROM: Viccy Kemp <Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com>
REC'D: 4/29/02, 10:32 AM

-----Original Message-----
From: Quillen, Christine [mailto:CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Books paying for themselves

When I was at PLA, one of the speakers said that a book has to circulate 20
times to pay for itself. The speaker (and I don't remember who it was or
which session) didn't attribute that to anyone and I wondered if anyone out
there could point me in the direction of an article or book.

Thanks,

C. L.

C. L. Quillen, Librarian
South County Regional Branch Library
35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004

FROM: Sherri Lazenby <sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 11:54 AM

Sherri L. Lazenby
sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org <mailto:Sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org>
Branch Manager
Audelia Road Branch Library
Dallas Public Library System
10045 Audelia Road
Dallas, TX 75238
(214) 670-1350
(214) 670-0790 FAX

-----Original Message-----
From: Viccy Kemp [SMTP:Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:27 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

I don't have that specific figure. What I did write down from the
pre-conference on weeding was that a book had to earn its place in
the
collection. If the book had not circulated 36 times in three years,
then
Cuyahoga County weeded it because it wasn't earning its place.
I, too, would be interested in knowing if there are statistics to
corroborate the below information.
Thanks,
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!

-----Original Message-----
From: Quillen, Christine [mailto:CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Books paying for themselves

When I was at PLA, one of the speakers said that a book has to
circulate 20
times to pay for itself. The speaker (and I don't remember who it
was or
which session) didn't attribute that to anyone and I wondered if
anyone out
there could point me in the direction of an article or book.

Thanks,

C. L.

C. L. Quillen, Librarian
South County Regional Branch Library
35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004

......................................................................
Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: Kathleen Stipek <kstipek@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 12:05 PM

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac

-----Original Message-----
From: Sherri Lazenby [mailto:sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:51 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

Was this for all books or just fiction?

-----Original Message-----
From: Viccy Kemp [SMTP:Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:27 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

-----Original Message-----
From: Quillen, Christine [mailto:CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Books paying for themselves

When I was at PLA, one of the speakers said that a book has to
circulate 20
times to pay for itself. The speaker (and I don't remember who it
was or
which session) didn't attribute that to anyone and I wondered if
anyone out
there could point me in the direction of an article or book.

Thanks,

C. L.

C. L. Quillen, Librarian
South County Regional Branch Library
35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004

......................................................................
Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: Viccy Kemp <Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 12:15 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: Sherri Lazenby [mailto:sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:51 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

Was this for all books or just fiction?

-----Original Message-----
From: Viccy Kemp [SMTP:Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:27 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

-----Original Message-----
From: Quillen, Christine [mailto:CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Books paying for themselves

When I was at PLA, one of the speakers said that a book has to
circulate 20
times to pay for itself. The speaker (and I don't remember who it
was or
which session) didn't attribute that to anyone and I wondered if
anyone out
there could point me in the direction of an article or book.

Thanks,

C. L.

C. L. Quillen, Librarian
South County Regional Branch Library
35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004

......................................................................
Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: "Franz, Patty" <pfranz@pamunkeylibrary.org>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 12:15 PM

Thank you! I have been contemplating my book order for this week,
wondering how many of them would circulate "enough"? You said what I have
been thinking and much more ably than I would have. Patty

Patty Franz
Supervising Librarian
Pamunkey Regional Library
P. O. Box 119
Hanover, VA 23069

pfranz@pamunkeylibrary.org
www.pamunkeylibrary.org

FROM: "M. Wms." <mmwm@adelphia.net>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 12:47 PM

Perhaps in a large library, most of the books go out this often, but
in a small library, we count the book as a popular one if it goes
out 5 or 6 times per year (and we only buy one copy of each book).
"Literature" rarely goes out but we're not going to ditch it for
that reason.

If we went by this rule, many libraries would be filled with romance
novels, popular mysteries, and some kids books. While these books
are important in a public library (and I love mysteries!), so are
reference and non-fiction books (which might only be skimmed on site
and never taken out), literature, poetry, and backlists of current
fiction authors.

~ Molly Wms.
--
Molly Williams
Volunteer, Waterboro Public Library (Maine)
daily library weblog: http://www.waterboro.lib.me.us/blog.htm

Kathleen Stipek wrote:

FROM: Viccy Kemp <Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 1:39 PM

I agree with Kathleen that we have to strike a balance. I would never weed a
classic, defined anyway you want to, except for wear and then I would
replace it. I would never weed a book by a Texas author because that's a
local area decision to make.

But there are some bottom line decisions that weeding helps: your
circulation WILL go up if you have an attractive, current set of books.
Patrons don't want to paw through ugly old books.
Please buy the CREW Method. You can call the Texas State Library at
512.463.5494 or fax requests to 514.463.8800. You can email
anne.ramos@tsl.state.tx.us. They cost $8.50/each plus shipping and handling.
Total payment for one copy is $9.76.

HTH
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Stipek [mailto:kstipek@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:59 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

I don't want to be seen as unbusinesslike, but MUST a book pay for itself?
If so, we might have to dump a lot of things that don't move often but move
once in a while. Do we dump the not-so active Nobelist but keep Stephen,
Danielle, etc. who are? What about the E.M. Forster? Do we keep Howard's
End, A Passage to India, and A Room with a View because they had movie
demand but nothing else of his because nobody has read it lately? Isn't
there some judicious balance we need to strike between the popular and the
not-so-popular? We might not want to buy very large numbers of some titles,
but we might want to have one copy of several of an author's works. We
cannot let the bottom-line people dictate EVERYTHING that goes on in
libraries. Let's leave that to the TV programmers and blockbuster-movie
schedulers.
........................................................................
Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
(kstipek@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac

-----Original Message-----
From: Sherri Lazenby [mailto:sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:51 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

Was this for all books or just fiction?

-----Original Message-----
From: Viccy Kemp [SMTP:Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:27 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

-----Original Message-----
From: Quillen, Christine [mailto:CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Books paying for themselves

When I was at PLA, one of the speakers said that a book has to
circulate 20
times to pay for itself. The speaker (and I don't remember who it
was or
which session) didn't attribute that to anyone and I wondered if
anyone out
there could point me in the direction of an article or book.

Thanks,

C. L.

C. L. Quillen, Librarian
South County Regional Branch Library
35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004

......................................................................
Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: "Quillen, Christine" <CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 2:44 PM

Thanks again,
C. L.

-----Original Message-----
From: Viccy Kemp [mailto:Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 1:09 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

The information was given out in the session covering weeding by Dewey
class, so I believed it pertained to non-fiction.
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!

FROM: Barry Trott <btrott@mail.wrl.org>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 3:17 PM

Even if you are a proponent of the "give'em what they want," I think that
you have to have a variety of materials so that folks know what the
possibilities are. How can they know what they want if we don't let them
know what is out there? Helen Haines wrote that "Librarianship ought to
mean a personal fellowship with literature -- catholicity, tolerance,
receptivity toward the new, familiarity with those older tideways from
which fresh currents arise, diverge and flow endlessly through time; and
always zest in an infinite adventure of exploration and discovery."
(Technics or humanization in librarianship?. Library Journal. 63(15),
September 1, 1938)

We also need to provide the opportunity for readers to explore those
"older tideways" and we can do that through having collections that
encourage readers to go beyond where they might ordinarily look, and
through using RA skills to assist readers in making connections to books
that will appeal to them. But if the books are not there, it is difficult
to make those connections.

Barry

*******************************************************************************
Barry Trott 7770 Croaker Rd.
Adult Services Director Williamsburg VA 23188
Williamsburg Regional Library Phone: 757-259-4053
btrott@mail.wrl.org FAX: 757-259-4079
http://www.wrl.org/bookweb/
*******************************************************************************

On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, Kathleen Stipek wrote:

> I don't want to be seen as unbusinesslike, but MUST a book pay for itself?
> If so, we might have to dump a lot of things that don't move often but move
> once in a while. Do we dump the not-so active Nobelist but keep Stephen,
> Danielle, etc. who are? What about the E.M. Forster? Do we keep Howard's
> End, A Passage to India, and A Room with a View because they had movie
> demand but nothing else of his because nobody has read it lately? Isn't
> there some judicious balance we need to strike between the popular and the
> not-so-popular? We might not want to buy very large numbers of some titles,
> but we might want to have one copy of several of an author's works. We
> cannot let the bottom-line people dictate EVERYTHING that goes on in
> libraries. Let's leave that to the TV programmers and blockbuster-movie
> schedulers.
> ........................................................................
> Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
> Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
> (kstipek@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
> 352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)
>
> "Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sherri Lazenby [mailto:sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:51 PM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves
>
>
> Was this for all books or just fiction?
>
> Sherri L. Lazenby
> sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org <mailto:Sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org>
> Branch Manager
> Audelia Road Branch Library
> Dallas Public Library System
> 10045 Audelia Road
> Dallas, TX 75238
> (214) 670-1350
> (214) 670-0790 FAX
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Viccy Kemp [SMTP:Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:27 AM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves
>
> I don't have that specific figure. What I did write down from the
> pre-conference on weeding was that a book had to earn its place in
> the
> collection. If the book had not circulated 36 times in three years,
> then
> Cuyahoga County weeded it because it wasn't earning its place.
> I, too, would be interested in knowing if there are statistics to
> corroborate the below information.
> Thanks,
> Viccy Kemp
> The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Quillen, Christine [mailto:CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us]
> Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50 AM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Books paying for themselves
>
>
> When I was at PLA, one of the speakers said that a book has to
> circulate 20
> times to pay for itself. The speaker (and I don't remember who it
> was or
> which session) didn't attribute that to anyone and I wondered if
> anyone out
> there could point me in the direction of an article or book.
>
> Thanks,
>
> C. L.
>
> C. L. Quillen, Librarian
> South County Regional Branch Library
> 35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: SWOLF <SWOLF@cuyahoga.lib.oh.us>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 4:11 PM

The "GUIDELINES" of 20 circs refers to the number of times a book circulates
when it pays for itself. This was used as an illustration of just how few
circs a book needs before it actually pays for itself. Using the arbitrary
figure of $1.00 a circ, we figure it takes just 20-25 circs to equal its
list price. When you see a paperback that has circ'd 50-75 times, you can
see that you have gotten your money out of it! This is no indication that
you must weed the item, just an interesting comparison. Of course, it does
not hurt when you get circ like that on an item to know that you COULD let
it go. It has paid for itself big time. There is no scientific basis in
fact for this number. It was just an interesting comparison.

I must say also, that we stress anything we present at the workshop as
"GUIDELINES." There is no right or wrong answer. So much goes into
weeding: budget constraints, space constraints, community demand, core
collection, etc. etc. In fact, when I discuss weeding the non-fiction, I am
very specific about saying that I do not include circulation in our
handouts. That is something each library must determine for itself. I use
the circ of once a month as a very rough, quick-and-dirty criterion to add
to our other reasons why we MIGHT weed an item. Trust me, we do not weed
core titles, classics, etc. based solely on circulation. That would be a
HORROR!

We do say, however, that a book must earn its keep. I believe classic
titles and authors by their very nature earn their keep. That is not to say
that every small branch must have the complete run of every author though.
This is where the trained librarian and his/her judgment comes in. We can
only give you the guidelines. You know your individual library's mission,
budget, community, space needs, etc. You make the final decision.

Viccy has mentioned CREW. This is a very good, succinct, easy to use manual
for weeding. But, again, use it as a guideline to aid you in weeding.

I hope this helps.

Sue Anne Wolf
Cuyahoga County Public Library
swolf@cuyahoga.lib.oh.us

-----Original Message-----
From: Fiction_L [mailto:Fiction_L@maillist.webrary.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 3:00 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Fiction_L Digest #2211 - 04/30/02

Fiction_L Digest #2211 - Tuesday, April 30, 2002

RE: mysteries and apes
by "Gary Niebuhr" <Gary.Niebuhr@mcfls.org>
RE: Books paying for themselves
by "Viccy Kemp" <Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: mysteries and apes
From: "Gary Niebuhr" <Gary.Niebuhr@mcfls.org>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:01:34 -0500

Try No Sign Of Murder by Alan Russell (Walker, 1990), a mystery featuring P.
I. Stuart Winter about an ape who signs.

P. S. If any of you recognize Russell as the author of this series, or his
Innkeeper series, you may be interested that Russell is back in print this
May with a stand alone about a paparazzo.

Gary Warren Niebuhr, Library Director
Greendale Public Library
5647 Broad Street
Greendale, WI 53129
(414) 423-2136
gary.niebuhr@mcfls.org
www.greendale.org/library.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves
From: "Viccy Kemp" <Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 13:38:55 -0500

I want to reply to Kathleen's comments because the specific question that I
was responding to was in regards to a pre-conference on weeding given by the
Cuyahoga County system at PLA in March. They also recommend the CREW Method,
a primer of weeding available from the Texas State Library, which is one of
the SINGLE MOST USEFUL books I have ever used for collection development.

HTH
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kathleen Stipek [mailto:kstipek@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 11:59 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac

-----Original Message-----
From: Sherri Lazenby [mailto:sllazenby@dallaslibrary.org]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 12:51 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

Was this for all books or just fiction?

-----Original Message-----
From: Viccy Kemp [SMTP:Viccy.Kemp@cityofcarrollton.com]
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 10:27 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

-----Original Message-----
From: Quillen, Christine [mailto:CQUILL@camden.lib.nj.us]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 10:50 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Books paying for themselves

When I was at PLA, one of the speakers said that a book has to
circulate 20
times to pay for itself. The speaker (and I don't remember who it
was or
which session) didn't attribute that to anyone and I wondered if
anyone out
there could point me in the direction of an article or book.

Thanks,

C. L.

C. L. Quillen, Librarian
South County Regional Branch Library
35 Coopers Folly Road, Atco, New Jersey 08004

......................................................................
Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------
End of Fiction_L Digest

FROM: Barry Trott <btrott@mail.wrl.org>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 4:21 PM

Thanks for the information on the Weeding Guidelines. I did have a
question about the $1.00 per circ figure. You note in your message that
this is an arbitrary amount, but why did you all choose this figure,
rather than say $2.00/circ or .50/circ?

Barry

On Tue, 30 Apr 2002, SWOLF wrote:

> As a member of the WEED IT AND REAP panel, I would like to comment on
> some of the information going around about weeding. Basically the
> information there is correct, but taken a little of out context and a little
> garbled.
>
> The "GUIDELINES" of 20 circs refers to the number of times a book circulates
> when it pays for itself. This was used as an illustration of just how few
> circs a book needs before it actually pays for itself. Using the arbitrary
> figure of $1.00 a circ, we figure it takes just 20-25 circs to equal its
> list price. When you see a paperback that has circ'd 50-75 times, you can
> see that you have gotten your money out of it! This is no indication that
> you must weed the item, just an interesting comparison. Of course, it does
> not hurt when you get circ like that on an item to know that you COULD let
> it go. It has paid for itself big time. There is no scientific basis in
> fact for this number. It was just an interesting comparison.
>
> I must say also, that we stress anything we present at the workshop as
> "GUIDELINES." There is no right or wrong answer. So much goes into
> weeding: budget constraints, space constraints, community demand, core
> collection, etc. etc. In fact, when I discuss weeding the non-fiction, I am
> very specific about saying that I do not include circulation in our
> handouts. That is something each library must determine for itself. I use
> the circ of once a month as a very rough, quick-and-dirty criterion to add
> to our other reasons why we MIGHT weed an item. Trust me, we do not weed
> core titles, classics, etc. based solely on circulation. That would be a
> HORROR!
>
> We do say, however, that a book must earn its keep. I believe classic
> titles and authors by their very nature earn their keep. That is not to say
> that every small branch must have the complete run of every author though.
> This is where the trained librarian and his/her judgment comes in. We can
> only give you the guidelines. You know your individual library's mission,
> budget, community, space needs, etc. You make the final decision.
>
> Viccy has mentioned CREW. This is a very good, succinct, easy to use manual
> for weeding. But, again, use it as a guideline to aid you in weeding.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Sue Anne Wolf
> Cuyahoga County Public Library
> swolf@cuyahoga.lib.oh.us
>

FROM: Kathleen Stipek <kstipek@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us>
REC'D: 4/30/02, 4:21 PM

........................................................................
Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
(kstipek@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac

-----Original Message-----
From: SWOLF [mailto:SWOLF@cuyahoga.lib.oh.us]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 4:53 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Books paying for themselves

As a member of the WEED IT AND REAP panel, I would like to comment on
some of the information going around about weeding. Basically the
information there is correct, but taken a little of out context and a little
garbled.