Fiction_L Archives Use of Amazon in RA work Dates: 3/16/01,7:42 AM  through  3/22/01,1:50 PM  (63 postings) Search for: Select one or more indexes to search: 2011-current     2009-2010     2004-2008    1995-2003    (Matches from each index will be displayed separately in the results page.) Return to March 2001 thread menu   |   Fiction_L Archives Menu

FROM: Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 7:42 AM

Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
these" lists.

I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.

Mary K. Chelton
--
**************************************************************************************
Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
286-4255 or 776-2166
Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies, Queens
College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY
11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct voice; 3797
fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
**************************************************************************************

FROM: Kathleen Stipek <[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 8:02 AM

I have no shame and will steal a good idea wherever I find it, but I
wouldn't use just Amazon, although it has its uses. There are other helpful
tools out there both online and on paper, and I find that in RA 2 tools are
better than one, and 3 might be better sometimes.

........................................................................
Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac


-----Original Message-----
From: Mary K Chelton [[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:38 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Use of Amazon in RA work


Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
these" lists.

I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.

Mary K. Chelton
--
****************************************************************************
**********
Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
286-4255 or 776-2166
Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies, Queens
College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY
11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct voice; 3797
fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
****************************************************************************
**********

FROM: "Franz, Patty" <[removed]@pamunkeylibrary.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 8:13 AM

I would hope that this would only happen after they had exhausted
their own resources and only for desperate requests. Our staff is not yet
comfortable with RA, but I would discourage them from doing this. I use
Amazon for a variety of reasons, but I would never rely on "People who
bought this title also bought these" lists. When I buy books they are not
necessarily related, why would other peoples' purchases be related? I find
some of the connections very strange.
I can only guess that these librarians were very uncomfortable doing
RA.

Patty

Patty Franz
Supervising Librarian
Pamunkey Regional Library
P. O. Box 119
Hanover, VA 23069

[removed]@pamunkeylibrary.org
www.pamunkeylibrary.org

FROM: [removed]@juno.com
REC'D: 3/16/01, 8:45 AM

Mary K,
Like any other list of read-alikes or recommendations, Amazon's is usable
if you know enough about the other authors to make the connection that
they might have bought this book because they like this kind of story,
not as a birthday present for Aunt Susie. It's far easier to work with a
list from somewhere than to create a list of possibilities from nothing,
but we need to be careful. The best lists, of course, would tell us why
the creator thinks the books are similar or good suggestions for the same
reader.
Another thought--sometimes looking at a list like the other purchases on
Amazon gets our minds working and we come up with something much more
useful.
Joyce
Joyce Saricks

"Anyone who tries to make a distinction between education and
entertainment doesn't know the first thing about either."
Marshall McLuhan

FROM: Kim Rutter <[removed]@lvdl.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 8:45 AM

I think it's very chancy to relay suggestions from Amazon if you know
nothing about the books being mentioned, because there is no necessarily
logical connection between the books people choose to buy--some could be for
themselves, some for gifts, some for hobbies, some for leisure reading, etc.
But I can see how there might be an advantage in using Amazon as a memory
prompt when your mind is blank for read-alike suggestions. Just seeing book
lists like that and glancing at the reviews might also prompt other ideas.

Kim Rutter
Lake Villa (IL) District Library

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mary K Chelton [[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net]
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 7:38 AM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Use of Amazon in RA work
>
> Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
> to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
> could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
> occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
> recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
> these" lists.
>
> I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.
>
> Mary K. Chelton
> --
> **************************************************************************
> ************
> Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
> 286-4255 or 776-2166
> Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies, Queens
> College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY
> 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct voice; 3797
> fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
> **************************************************************************
> ************
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: "Dale Scott" <[removed]@ross.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 8:55 AM

[removed]@maillist.webrary.org writes:
>Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
>to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
>could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
>occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
>recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
>these" lists.
>
>I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.

Hello Mary K,
I don't find that using Amazon.com's "People who bought this title also
bought these" lists is a very productive endeavor. I have often looked at
these lists when I was purchasing books for my own personal reading, and
found that usually they had little or nothing in common with the book I
had purchased. I think these lists are merely promotional lists meant to
fuel consumption. It is another means of advertising, and does not seem
to be based on any "real" RA tools. Just one librarian's humble opinion,
Dale Scott
Librarian
The Ross School
East Hampton, NY 11963
631-907-5148
[removed]@ross.org

FROM: Barry Trott <[removed]@mail.wrl.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 9:06 AM

I think that having any sort of list to start from can be a big help,
especially for folks not comfortable with doing RA. I think that there are
more useful places to start looking for lists, lots of print RA resources
and some online, but if the librarians who were being surveyed/tested did
not have those resources available at their library or had not received
any training on these resources, then I can see where Amazon might be a
place they would start, at least they know that it has lists.

Amazon also has a certain level of recognition in the general community,
and using a resource like that may be a way to work patrons in to using RA
services who otherwise might not stick around while the librarian is going
through print resources for lists.

Mary K, do your students make some assessment of the RA resources
available at the libraries where they are asking for RA help? It seems to
me that knowing what resources the librarians have to work with is an
important part of evaluating the kind of service that is offered. If all
you have is the Internet, and no trining in online resources for RA,
Amazon can look like a great tool.

Barry

*******************************************************************************
Barry Trott 7770 Croaker Rd.
Adult Services Director Williamsburg VA 23188
Williamsburg Regional Library Phone: 757-259-4053
[removed]@mail.wrl.org FAX: 757-259-4079
http://www.wrl.org/REF/Bookweb_Main.html
*******************************************************************************

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001, Mary K Chelton wrote:

> Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
> to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
> could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
> occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
> recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
> these" lists.
>
> I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.
>
> Mary K. Chelton
> --
> **************************************************************************************
> Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
> 286-4255 or 776-2166
> Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies, Queens
> College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY
> 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct voice; 3797
> fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
> **************************************************************************************
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: [removed]@DAYTON.LIB.OH.US
REC'D: 3/16/01, 9:38 AM

I think I agree with everyone about the use of Amazon.com as a reader's
advisory too. I look at their suggestions but I have to use my own
knowledge to decide if their suggestions are valid. For example, for
the patron who liked A Widow of One Year by John Irving, one of their
suggestions was Stephen King who seemed off the mark for me, but they
also suggested Anne Tyler and Barbara Kingsolver which seem like valid
comparisons. I also find that it is the one place where I can look
at the reviews and see if the reviewers compare the book to another author.
In the above case, one reviewer said Elizabeth Berg and Anne Tyler were
similar but Irving was more comnplex. I then compare this with information
from What Do I Read Next, Novelist and FictionL. I think I can get an
excellent list from here. I also checked some other libraries websites.
This does take time but we do produce a written reading list within one
week, so I do have time. I just checked the Rochester Hills Reader's
services website yesterday and was impressed with their changes and upgrades.
Of course, where I search depends on what type of genre I am looking for.


Jan Nottingham
Dayton & Montgomery County Public Library
Miami Township Branch
Dayton, Ohio 45342
[removed]@dayton.lib.oh.us

[removed]@maillist.webrary.org writes:
>Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
>to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
>could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
>occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
>recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
>these" lists.
>
>I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.

FROM: Mary Van Dyke <[removed]@CLSN3046.glenview.lib.il.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 9:48 AM

Mary k,

I personally always look at what other people have bought when I am buying
books for myself--it's true one is often clued into a gem previously
unknown. However for Readers Advisory I'd go to novelist or if I were
stumped, ask on of the other librarians, People often buy books for
different purposes or people(gifts)--I might order philosophy for my
husband, civil war books for one of my children, and a good mystery for
me--all very different, but ordered by the same person.

Mary Van Dyke
Glenview (IL) Public Library

FROM: "Kathy Loucks" <[removed]@cml.lib.oh.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 9:58 AM

I think this might not be a terribly reliable source for redalikes, since you don't know why Amazon's customers happened to select these particular titles I think it could be a helpful quick starting point if you know enough about the books in question to evaluate whether they match the appeal factors you have determined your patron is interested in, or if you or the patron then looks at the reviews and Amazon customer comments in the database for more information about those titles. I like Amazon best as a quick place to check on a specific title when you need reviews, or can't remember if it matches a plotline you're trying to identify.

Kathleen Loucks
Columbus Metropolitan Library
Columbus, OH

FROM: Mary Mcgavick <[removed]@knox.net>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 10:09 AM

Hello,
I think Amazon can be a useful tool, especially if it is used as a
memory prompt, rather than a definitive answer.

What I want to know is what the reader/student/researchers thought of
the Amazon-generated suggestions. Did those books appeal to them? Were
those 3 students more or less interested in their booklists than those
whose lists were formed by other means?

And, did anybody check anything out? (If a busy grad student was moved
to read a novel based on a recommendation, I'd say that was a good
recommendation, no matter how it was formed.)


Mary McGavick
Head of Reference (and notably wretched at RA)
PL of Mount Vernon & Knox County, Ohio
201 North Mulberry Street
Mount Vernon, Ohio 43050
740-392-book

FROM: "Brad Scott" <[removed]@ci.allen.tx.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 10:20 AM

I guess I'll play devil's advocate here, since I think that Amazon is providing a service which is generally useful to the reading public, many of whom will never know about or have access to the readers-advisory tools that we know and love.

I would never buy a book or specifically recommend a book solely on the basis of Amazon's listings; however, it can sometimes yield interesting ideas for further exploration. For example, when I looked up one of Lord Dunsany's books this morning, Amazon's recommended tie-ins included Algernon Blackwood, William Morris, S. T. Joshi, Robert W. Chambers, and Clark A. Smith, all of whom are logical tie-ins in the field of classic fantastic fiction. On the other hand, it seems that their accounting sometimes gets overwhelmed by sheer volume. For a while, according to Amazon, it seemed that everyone who had looked up any author had also bought all the Harry Potter books! Other times it's depressingly unimaginative. (So fans of Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere" also bought other Neil Gaiman books. What a surprise.)

Does anybody on the list have any inside information on how Amazon compiles these lists? Assuming that the numbers and the reader reviews are not being deliberately distorted for promotional purposes, I see no reason why they can't be regarded as "useful but not authoritative." Sort of like raw data in a statistical study: it can be useful but shouldn't be regarded as a firm conclusion until it has been analyzed.

I would hope that we as librarians would not automatically reject any potentially useful tool because of professional jealousy or fear of competition. Heaven forbid, I even find the reader comments interesting, even though they haven't passed through the hallowed gates of LJ or Booklist! As with any forum that's open to the general public or commercially run, you have to apply judgment to what you hear, and if possible collect information from more than one source.

Bradley A. Scott (who is now donning his flameproof clothing....)
Allen (Texas) Public Library

** All opinions are personal. **

FROM: "MA_Bob (Bob Lunn)" <[removed]@KCLIBRARY.ORG>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 10:20 AM

I think that it's counterproductive to ignore Amazon.com (their name
recognition has become too great for that even if we wanted to). The thought
that someone would turn to it as the only resource is what is troubling to
me. It certainly has its limitations/deficiencies as many of us have spelled
out.
The fact that someone working in a library would see it as the first, maybe
sole, resource for answering the question indicates that staff training is a
continuing need, so Mary K.(and everybody else for responsible for staff
training)will have steady work in the foreseeable future.

Bob Lunn, Customer Services
Kansas City Public Library
Telephone: 816-701-3555
Fax: 816-701-3401
E-mail: [removed]@kclibrary.org

FROM: "Jeanne Linn" <[removed]@libby.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 11:07 AM

I never thought to use that for fiction. I only look at it when I am trying
to find a nonfiction book and want more titles on the subject. I have seen
some interesting lists of favorites on Amazon, kind of like we compile here,
but I'm not sure how they came up or where to find them now! Jeanne

-----Original Message-----
From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
[[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Mary K Chelton
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 6:38 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Use of Amazon in RA work


Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
these" lists.

I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.

Mary K. Chelton
--
****************************************************************************
**********
Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
286-4255 or 776-2166
Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies, Queens
College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY
11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct voice; 3797
fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
****************************************************************************
**********

FROM: "Doxtator, Jan" <[removed]@uwsp.edu>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 11:57 AM

Brad,
I'll second your thoughts. One of my aims in life is to figure out how
Harriet Klausner (sp?), one of the regular Amazon reader/commentors (is she
a plant?) reads as much as she does. I have read enough of the titles that
she has recommended that I trust her judgment as much as any other reviewer.
Jan Doxtator
Portage County Public Library
Stevens Point, WI 54481

> ----------
> From: Brad Scott[[removed]@ci.allen.tx.us]
> Reply To: Fiction_L
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 9:56 AM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work
>
> I guess I'll play devil's advocate here, since I think that Amazon is
> providing a service which is generally useful to the reading public, many
> of whom will never know about or have access to the readers-advisory tools
> that we know and love.
>
> I would never buy a book or specifically recommend a book solely on the
> basis of Amazon's listings; however, it can sometimes yield interesting
> ideas for further exploration. For example, when I looked up one of Lord
> Dunsany's books this morning, Amazon's recommended tie-ins included
> Algernon Blackwood, William Morris, S. T. Joshi, Robert W. Chambers, and
> Clark A. Smith, all of whom are logical tie-ins in the field of classic
> fantastic fiction. On the other hand, it seems that their accounting
> sometimes gets overwhelmed by sheer volume. For a while, according to
> Amazon, it seemed that everyone who had looked up any author had also
> bought all the Harry Potter books! Other times it's depressingly
> unimaginative. (So fans of Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere" also bought other
> Neil Gaiman books. What a surprise.)
>
> Does anybody on the list have any inside information on how Amazon
> compiles these lists? Assuming that the numbers and the reader reviews
> are not being deliberately distorted for promotional purposes, I see no
> reason why they can't be regarded as "useful but not authoritative." Sort
> of like raw data in a statistical study: it can be useful but shouldn't
> be regarded as a firm conclusion until it has been analyzed.
>
> I would hope that we as librarians would not automatically reject any
> potentially useful tool because of professional jealousy or fear of
> competition. Heaven forbid, I even find the reader comments interesting,
> even though they haven't passed through the hallowed gates of LJ or
> Booklist! As with any forum that's open to the general public or
> commercially run, you have to apply judgment to what you hear, and if
> possible collect information from more than one source.
>
> Bradley A. Scott (who is now donning his flameproof clothing....)
> Allen (Texas) Public Library
>
> ** All opinions are personal. **
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: Kathleen Stipek <[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 12:07 PM

This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well on
the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.

........................................................................
.....................
Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac


-----Original Message-----
From: Doxtator, Jan [[removed]@uwsp.edu]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:49 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Use of Amazon in RA work


Brad,
I'll second your thoughts. One of my aims in life is to figure out how
Harriet Klausner (sp?), one of the regular Amazon reader/commentors (is she
a plant?) reads as much as she does. I have read enough of the titles that
she has recommended that I trust her judgment as much as any other reviewer.
Jan Doxtator
Portage County Public Library
Stevens Point, WI 54481

> ----------
> From: Brad Scott[[removed]@ci.allen.tx.us]
> Reply To: Fiction_L
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 9:56 AM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work
>
> I guess I'll play devil's advocate here, since I think that Amazon is
> providing a service which is generally useful to the reading public, many
> of whom will never know about or have access to the readers-advisory tools
> that we know and love.
>
> I would never buy a book or specifically recommend a book solely on the
> basis of Amazon's listings; however, it can sometimes yield interesting
> ideas for further exploration. For example, when I looked up one of Lord
> Dunsany's books this morning, Amazon's recommended tie-ins included
> Algernon Blackwood, William Morris, S. T. Joshi, Robert W. Chambers, and
> Clark A. Smith, all of whom are logical tie-ins in the field of classic
> fantastic fiction. On the other hand, it seems that their accounting
> sometimes gets overwhelmed by sheer volume. For a while, according to
> Amazon, it seemed that everyone who had looked up any author had also
> bought all the Harry Potter books! Other times it's depressingly
> unimaginative. (So fans of Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere" also bought other
> Neil Gaiman books. What a surprise.)
>
> Does anybody on the list have any inside information on how Amazon
> compiles these lists? Assuming that the numbers and the reader reviews
> are not being deliberately distorted for promotional purposes, I see no
> reason why they can't be regarded as "useful but not authoritative." Sort
> of like raw data in a statistical study: it can be useful but shouldn't
> be regarded as a firm conclusion until it has been analyzed.
>
> I would hope that we as librarians would not automatically reject any
> potentially useful tool because of professional jealousy or fear of
> competition. Heaven forbid, I even find the reader comments interesting,
> even though they haven't passed through the hallowed gates of LJ or
> Booklist! As with any forum that's open to the general public or
> commercially run, you have to apply judgment to what you hear, and if
> possible collect information from more than one source.
>
> Bradley A. Scott (who is now donning his flameproof clothing....)
> Allen (Texas) Public Library
>
> ** All opinions are personal. **
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: [removed]@aol.com
REC'D: 3/16/01, 12:18 PM

In a message dated 3/16/2001 12:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@uwsp.edu writes:

<<
Brad,
I'll second your thoughts. One of my aims in life is to figure out how
Harriet Klausner (sp?), one of the regular Amazon reader/commentors (is she
a plant?) reads as much as she does. I have read enough of the titles that
she has recommended that I trust her judgment as much as any other reviewer.
Jan Doxtator
Portage County Public Library
Stevens Point, WI 54481 >>

Harriet Klaussner is not a "plant" as far as I know. She's a free-lance
reviewer (I think) who also reviews for Painted Rock/Under the Covers. She
does a lot of romance books, among others.

Binnie Syril Braunstein
romance novelist/former librarian

FROM: [removed]@aol.com
REC'D: 3/16/01, 12:28 PM

In a message dated 3/16/2001 12:59:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us writes:

<<
This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well on
the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer. >>

When you say "commentators" do you mean people who post a customer review on
Amazon.com? I've done that myself, when a book is so outstanding, I want to
share the experience. But I don't advertise myself as a reviewer, i.e.,
"Read more about me."

Binnie Syril Braunstein
romance novelist/former librarian

FROM: "Lynn K. Silence" <[removed]@imail.slcl.lib.mo.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 12:38 PM

A salesperson in whose integrity I trust very much, told me recently that
Amazon has started accepting paid "reviews" from publishers and authors, so
I don't know that I would put much faith in them. The 'customers who
bought this title' list often produces some really odd lists of titles. I
bought a CD and some kitchen knives and a book from Amazon--what kind of RA
message did that send to anyone?

lks


Lynn K. Silence Manager, Collection Development
St. Louis County Library
300 Clarkson Road Ellisville, Missouri 63011
Voice: 636-227-1138 Fax: 636-227-9632
"In the beginning there was the book, and the book inspired
and angered others to write books, and when the people could
no longer cope...they begat libraries, and the Lord said, 'I don't
know what else we can do.' " Anonymous

FROM: "Mary Rindfleisch" <[removed]@biblio.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 2:03 PM

I use Amazon basically in place of Books in Print & Forthcoming Books (for
which purpose I find it very useful), as we no longer subscribe to these
items per se (it's a long story, having to do with consortia, screen menu
hierarchies on the PAC, and more too boring to go in to). I will sometimes
make mental note of a recommendation they make, but I don't much hold with
them as a resource for readalikes. Those "...also bought these books..."
lists don't really reflect the kind of factors we are striving to match in
RA work. They seem to be heavily dependent on isolated word matches and on
the purchases of people who buy a lot of gifts or all the Oprahs or every
bestseller. Often their recommendations are downright laughable. But I
guess it is a cheap alternative of sorts, for those libraries that cannot
afford Novelist etc. Personally, I find the readalike lists posted by some
many libraries on their websites (and the Fiction_L lists)a lot more useful.

Mary Rindfleisch
Adult Services/Readers' Advisory Librarian
Ridgefield Library
472 Main St.
Ridgefield, CT 06877
Phone: 203-438-2282
e-mail: [removed]@biblio.org

-----Original Message-----
From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
[[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Mary K Chelton
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 8:38 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Use of Amazon in RA work


Last night my students reported on their first assignment, which was
to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if the library
could suggest something like a book they had read and liked. On 3
occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon and
recommend titles from the "People who bought this title also bought
these" lists.

I'm curious to find out what list members think about doing this.

Mary K. Chelton
--
****************************************************************************
**********
Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
286-4255 or 776-2166
Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies, Queens
College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY
11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct voice; 3797
fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
****************************************************************************
**********

FROM: "Kelly Benson" <[removed]@htls.lib.il.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 2:14 PM

>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
>purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well
on
>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.


Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's reviews, and
I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take much stock in them,
however, because like any public forum, people tend to go into their own
political agendas with books (For examples, check out any "hot" topics such
as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books such as Star Wars.)

But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think that
Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it correctly. I
certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but I've certainly used
it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also used it when I'm looking for
subject fiction, not so much by the people who've bought section, but by
selecting the subject headings on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for
plot summaries, one of my clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction
list. She likes to have a good plot summary for all of the new books.

There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of on
standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of gay/lesbian
fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have to do on a day to
day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at Dominican, our professor (Hi,
Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The book I
chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar works, I
couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had a "store" on
gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me in terms of finding
similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought" so much (since there were
lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on those lists) but by using the
subject headings and so on.

So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any tool, in
conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you a good
plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to get
some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and checking
out their plot summaries.

Kelly Benson
Adult Services Librarian
Three Rivers Public Library District
Channahon, Illinois

FROM: "Mary Rindfleisch" <[removed]@biblio.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 2:24 PM

I think the people who write in their comments are largely real people, but
even so it is a very self-selecting group (not everybody has the time and
inclination to do this, and it tends to be the folks with strong opinions
one way or the other who contribute). I came across a rating one time for
Toni Morrisson's _The Bluest Eye_ (I think that was it) which gave it one
star out of a possible five, based on hundreds of reader ratings. Curious,
I scrolled down through the first few dozen of these and discovered that
they were all from members of what appeared to be the same high school class
somewhere. Their main gripe appeared to be that they had been assigned to
read the book over prom weekend or some such and took out their anger on the
selected title. Comments generally had little to do with why they disliked
the book, just that they didn't want to have to read it. But somebody
obviously thought it would be clever to go online and vent, and the idea
spread. What does that say about the value of the resulting average rating?

Mary Rindfleisch
Adult Services/Readers' Advisory Librarian
Ridgefield Library
472 Main St.
Ridgefield, CT 06877
Phone: 203-438-2282
e-mail: [removed]@biblio.org

-----Original Message-----
From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
[[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Kathleen Stipek
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:55 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Use of Amazon in RA work


This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well on
the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.

........................................................................
.....................
Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac


-----Original Message-----
From: Doxtator, Jan [[removed]@uwsp.edu]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:49 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Use of Amazon in RA work


Brad,
I'll second your thoughts. One of my aims in life is to figure out how
Harriet Klausner (sp?), one of the regular Amazon reader/commentors (is she
a plant?) reads as much as she does. I have read enough of the titles that
she has recommended that I trust her judgment as much as any other reviewer.
Jan Doxtator
Portage County Public Library
Stevens Point, WI 54481

> ----------
> From: Brad Scott[[removed]@ci.allen.tx.us]
> Reply To: Fiction_L
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 9:56 AM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work
>
> I guess I'll play devil's advocate here, since I think that Amazon is
> providing a service which is generally useful to the reading public, many
> of whom will never know about or have access to the readers-advisory tools
> that we know and love.
>
> I would never buy a book or specifically recommend a book solely on the
> basis of Amazon's listings; however, it can sometimes yield interesting
> ideas for further exploration. For example, when I looked up one of Lord
> Dunsany's books this morning, Amazon's recommended tie-ins included
> Algernon Blackwood, William Morris, S. T. Joshi, Robert W. Chambers, and
> Clark A. Smith, all of whom are logical tie-ins in the field of classic
> fantastic fiction. On the other hand, it seems that their accounting
> sometimes gets overwhelmed by sheer volume. For a while, according to
> Amazon, it seemed that everyone who had looked up any author had also
> bought all the Harry Potter books! Other times it's depressingly
> unimaginative. (So fans of Neil Gaiman's "Neverwhere" also bought other
> Neil Gaiman books. What a surprise.)
>
> Does anybody on the list have any inside information on how Amazon
> compiles these lists? Assuming that the numbers and the reader reviews
> are not being deliberately distorted for promotional purposes, I see no
> reason why they can't be regarded as "useful but not authoritative." Sort
> of like raw data in a statistical study: it can be useful but shouldn't
> be regarded as a firm conclusion until it has been analyzed.
>
> I would hope that we as librarians would not automatically reject any
> potentially useful tool because of professional jealousy or fear of
> competition. Heaven forbid, I even find the reader comments interesting,
> even though they haven't passed through the hallowed gates of LJ or
> Booklist! As with any forum that's open to the general public or
> commercially run, you have to apply judgment to what you hear, and if
> possible collect information from more than one source.
>
> Bradley A. Scott (who is now donning his flameproof clothing....)
> Allen (Texas) Public Library
>
> ** All opinions are personal. **
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: "Trish Klein" <[removed]@rdpl.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 3:27 PM

I have recently joined Fiction_L and have been very interested in all the wonderful questions and responses that the list generates. I have a question to ask all of you that arose from Kelly's comments regarding the use of Amazon in RA. Do those of you who use the Amazon plot summaries on lists that you put out in your library credit them to Amazon? We are having trouble deciding whether or not to use the Amazon (or other) plot summaries on our booklists or if we should be writing them ourselves. There are two diverse opinions on this: the first says that we should use the already prepared summaries as they are usually very concise and capture the story well, and the second says that we should write them ourselves so the writer becomes more familiar with the book. I'd appreciate any comments on whether or nor you credit Amazon (or other sources), use the Amazon plot summaries or write your own. Thanks, Trish Klein

Trish Klein
[removed]@rdpl.org
Readers' Services Coordinator
Red Deer Public Library
4818-49 St. Red Deer, AB T4N 1T9
403-342-9110 Fax: 403-341-3110


>>> [removed]@htls.lib.il.us 03/16/01 12:38PM >>>

>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
>purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well
on
>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.


Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's reviews, and
I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take much stock in them,
however, because like any public forum, people tend to go into their own
political agendas with books (For examples, check out any "hot" topics such
as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books such as Star Wars.)

But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think that
Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it correctly. I
certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but I've certainly used
it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also used it when I'm looking for
subject fiction, not so much by the people who've bought section, but by
selecting the subject headings on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for
plot summaries, one of my clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction
list. She likes to have a good plot summary for all of the new books.

There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of on
standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of gay/lesbian
fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have to do on a day to
day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at Dominican, our professor (Hi,
Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The book I
chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar works, I
couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had a "store" on
gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me in terms of finding
similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought" so much (since there were
lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on those lists) but by using the
subject headings and so on.

So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any tool, in
conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you a good
plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to get
some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and checking
out their plot summaries.

Kelly Benson
Adult Services Librarian
Three Rivers Public Library District
Channahon, Illinois

FROM: "Mary Rindfleisch" <[removed]@biblio.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 3:49 PM

I generally make up my own blurbs for booklists, but I will admit they rely
heavily at times for inspiration on jacket material, Amazon, Fiction Catalog
or whatever if I am not personally familiar with the book or author.
However, if I find myself getting what I feel is too close for comfort to
someone else's original idea/words, I will generally quote a sentence or
phrase verbatim, with attribution.

Mary Rindfleisch
Adult Services/Readers' Advisory Librarian
Ridgefield Library
472 Main St.
Ridgefield, CT 06877
Phone: 203-438-2282
e-mail: [removed]@biblio.org

-----Original Message-----
From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
[[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Trish Klein
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:27 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


I have recently joined Fiction_L and have been very interested in all the
wonderful questions and responses that the list generates. I have a
question to ask all of you that arose from Kelly's comments regarding the
use of Amazon in RA. Do those of you who use the Amazon plot summaries on
lists that you put out in your library credit them to Amazon? We are having
trouble deciding whether or not to use the Amazon (or other) plot summaries
on our booklists or if we should be writing them ourselves. There are two
diverse opinions on this: the first says that we should use the already
prepared summaries as they are usually very concise and capture the story
well, and the second says that we should write them ourselves so the writer
becomes more familiar with the book. I'd appreciate any comments on whether
or nor you credit Amazon (or other sources), use the Amazon plot summaries
or write your own. Thanks, Trish Klein

Trish Klein
[removed]@rdpl.org
Readers' Services Coordinator
Red Deer Public Library
4818-49 St. Red Deer, AB T4N 1T9
403-342-9110 Fax: 403-341-3110


>>> [removed]@htls.lib.il.us 03/16/01 12:38PM >>>

>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
>purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well
on
>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.


Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's reviews, and
I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take much stock in them,
however, because like any public forum, people tend to go into their own
political agendas with books (For examples, check out any "hot" topics such
as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books such as Star Wars.)

But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think that
Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it correctly. I
certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but I've certainly used
it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also used it when I'm looking for
subject fiction, not so much by the people who've bought section, but by
selecting the subject headings on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for
plot summaries, one of my clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction
list. She likes to have a good plot summary for all of the new books.

There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of on
standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of gay/lesbian
fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have to do on a day to
day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at Dominican, our professor (Hi,
Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The book I
chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar works, I
couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had a "store" on
gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me in terms of finding
similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought" so much (since there were
lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on those lists) but by using the
subject headings and so on.

So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any tool, in
conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you a good
plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to get
some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and checking
out their plot summaries.

Kelly Benson
Adult Services Librarian
Three Rivers Public Library District
Channahon, Illinois

FROM: "Waznis, Betty" <[removed]@sdcl.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 4:10 PM

That is true without a doubt, but the same thing could be said for the
random comments that we hear from patrons every day and take into account
when evaluating or categorizing a book. I put Amazon customer comments in
the same class as patron comments from people I don't know particularly
well. Just another piece of data that taken with others gives you a picture
of the book. I certainly see plenty of Fiction-L members referring to patron
comments as indicators for likely read-alikes, bad language, suitability of
books for various purposes, etc. It doesn't seem that much different to me.


Betty Waznis
San Diego County Library


Subject: RE: Use of Amazon in RA work
From: "Mary Rindfleisch" <[removed]@biblio.org>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:33:25 -0500

I think the people who write in their comments are largely real people, but
even so it is a very self-selecting group (not everybody has the time and
inclination to do this, and it tends to be the folks with strong opinions
one way or the other who contribute).

FROM: "Kelly Benson" <[removed]@htls.lib.il.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 4:20 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: Trish Klein <[removed]@rdpl.org>
To: Fiction_L <[removed]@maillist.webrary.org>
Date: Friday, March 16, 2001 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


>I have recently joined Fiction_L and have been very interested in all the
wonderful questions and responses that the list generates. I have a
question to ask all of you that arose from Kelly's comments regarding the
use of Amazon in RA. Do those of you who use the Amazon plot summaries on
lists that you put out in your library credit them to Amazon? We are having
trouble deciding whether or not to use the Amazon (or other) plot summaries
on our booklists or if we should be writing them ourselves. There are two
diverse opinions on this: the first says that we should use the already
prepared summaries as they are usually very concise and capture the story
well, and the second says that we should write them ourselves so the writer
becomes more familiar with the book. I'd appreciate any comments on whether
or nor you credit Amazon (or other sources), use the Amazon plot summaries
or write your own. Thanks, Trish Klein
>
>

Well, my clerk takes the summaries from Amazon, but not word for word. She
usually combines phrases from the book descriptions (which come directly
from the books themselves) and combines them with descriptions from the
reviews on Amazon (the professional reviews, not personal editorals), then
adds or deletes words to make it more clear. So I should have been clearer
that she uses Amazon as a basis to write the reviews, not word for word.
But yes indeed, she does put a little note on the bottom of the list that
says most book descriptions come from Amazon.com. Sometimes she has to use
another source like Barnes and Noble or Booklist or what not if the ones on
Amazon aren't very good, then she lists them as well.

Kelly Benson
Adult Services Librarian
Three Rivers Public Library District
Channahon, Illinois

FROM: David Wright <[removed]@yahoo.com>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 4:31 PM

Like others, I use Amazon for on-the-spot
book identification, especially with recent
titles, as they tend to put new releases first.
They used to have a "Featured in the Media"
section that I used frequently for those
super-vague "I heard about this book on NPR"
questions where your best, brightest hope is
going to the source, but I'm sad to say this
section seems to have been jettisoned, so I just
go directly to NPR etc. for those now.

As for readalike work, I do sometimes
consult the 'Explore Similar Items' lists for
newer genre writers that may not have hit the
print resources yet, but I don't think much of
the 'also bought' lists.

I do find customer reviews interesting, and
both the positive and negative reviews can reveal
a lot about what readers appreciate about a
paticular author. Once I sat down and read all
400 odd reviews for Mists of Avalon, mostly
younger female raves peppered with the occasional
young male rant - it was intriguing, like
attending a MZBradley convention. When it comes
to the Romance genre, reader reviews at Amazon
and elsewhere, in which readers are addressing
their fellow enthusiasts, are one of the only
places to hear these voices.

And yes, will the real Harriet Klausner
please stand up? Maybe we can invite her to join
this list. Or not.

David Wright
Seattle Public Library

--- Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net>
wrote:
> Last night my students reported on their first
> assignment, which was
> to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries
> and ask if the library
> could suggest something like a book they had
> read and liked. On 3
> occasions, different students had librarians go
> to Amazon and
> recommend titles from the "People who bought
> this title also bought
> these" lists.
>
> I'm curious to find out what list members think
> about doing this.
>
> Mary K. Chelton
> --
>
**************************************************************************************
> Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY
> 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
> 286-4255 or 776-2166
> Work: Graduate School of Library and
> Information Studies, Queens
> College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena
> Blvd., Flushing, NY
> 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office;
> 3667 direct voice; 3797
> fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
>
**************************************************************************************
>
>
>
......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the
> archives?
> Everything Fiction_L:
http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

FROM: "Georgine Olson" <[removed]@fnsb.lib.ak.us>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 5:03 PM

Trish -

I've started using some amazon.com synopses, reviews, and reader reviews -
especially when they do a better job of capturing the essence of the title
than I can - I credit them, just as I do friends, co-workers, and patrons
when I use their annotations for a bibliography. Sometimes, there can be
two or three short annotations that give very different "pictures" of the
title, so I'll use (and credit) all. I like the variety of viewpoint it
brings........

Georgine N. Olson

Outreach Services Manager
Fairbanks North Star Borough Public Library & Regional Center
1215 Cowles Street
Fairbanks AK 99701

ph: (907) 459-1020 fax: (907) 459-1024
----- Original Message -----
From: Trish Klein <[removed]@rdpl.org>
To: Fiction_L <[removed]@maillist.webrary.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:26 PM
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


I have recently joined Fiction_L and have been very interested in all the
wonderful questions and responses that the list generates. I have a
question to ask all of you that arose from Kelly's comments regarding the
use of Amazon in RA. Do those of you who use the Amazon plot summaries on
lists that you put out in your library credit them to Amazon? We are having
trouble deciding whether or not to use the Amazon (or other) plot summaries
on our booklists or if we should be writing them ourselves. There are two
diverse opinions on this: the first says that we should use the already
prepared summaries as they are usually very concise and capture the story
well, and the second says that we should write them ourselves so the writer
becomes more familiar with the book. I'd appreciate any comments on whether
or nor you credit Amazon (or other sources), use the Amazon plot summaries
or write your own. Thanks, Trish Klein

Trish Klein
[removed]@rdpl.org
Readers' Services Coordinator
Red Deer Public Library
4818-49 St. Red Deer, AB T4N 1T9
403-342-9110 Fax: 403-341-3110


>>> [removed]@htls.lib.il.us 03/16/01 12:38PM >>>

>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
>purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well
on
>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.


Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's reviews, and
I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take much stock in them,
however, because like any public forum, people tend to go into their own
political agendas with books (For examples, check out any "hot" topics such
as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books such as Star Wars.)

But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think that
Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it correctly. I
certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but I've certainly used
it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also used it when I'm looking for
subject fiction, not so much by the people who've bought section, but by
selecting the subject headings on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for
plot summaries, one of my clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction
list. She likes to have a good plot summary for all of the new books.

There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of on
standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of gay/lesbian
fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have to do on a day to
day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at Dominican, our professor (Hi,
Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The book I
chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar works, I
couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had a "store" on
gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me in terms of finding
similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought" so much (since there were
lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on those lists) but by using the
subject headings and so on.

So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any tool, in
conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you a good
plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to get
some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and checking
out their plot summaries.

Kelly Benson
Adult Services Librarian
Three Rivers Public Library District
Channahon, Illinois

FROM: Kay Kelly <[removed]@acan.net>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 5:23 PM

I also use Amazon frequently, but take the reviews with a grain of salt.
They do include journal reviews on some titles which is helpful. I find
that it can be especially helpful if the customer is describing a book but
is unsure of the title. By reading the plot summary or customer reviews it
is possible to identify the book in many instances. Sometimes, they just
need to see a picture of the cover :) Another use I have found is with
series titles. We only do brief catalog records on paperback titles and
sometimes the cust. just wants "animorphs #54" and by checking Amazon I can
quickly find the title and then check my catalog. Also, the reader reviews
are helpful in determining the order of extensive series when I can't find
the info. elsewhere. I was trying to find the title to the third book in a
Catherine Cookson trilogy and lo and behold Amazon had a reprint that bound
all three together and I was able to find the title. So, even if some of
the reviews are biased it can be a useful tool.


At 01:38 PM 3/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
>>purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well
>on
>>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.
>
>
>Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's reviews, and
>I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take much stock in them,
>however, because like any public forum, people tend to go into their own
>political agendas with books (For examples, check out any "hot" topics such
>as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books such as Star Wars.)
>
>But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think that
>Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it correctly. I
>certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but I've certainly used
>it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also used it when I'm looking for
>subject fiction, not so much by the people who've bought section, but by
>selecting the subject headings on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for
>plot summaries, one of my clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction
>list. She likes to have a good plot summary for all of the new books.
>
>There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of on
>standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of gay/lesbian
>fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have to do on a day to
>day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at Dominican, our professor (Hi,
>Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The book I
>chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar works, I
>couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had a "store" on
>gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me in terms of finding
>similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought" so much (since there were
>lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on those lists) but by using the
>subject headings and so on.
>
>So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any tool, in
>conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you a good
>plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to get
>some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and checking
>out their plot summaries.
>
>Kelly Benson
>Adult Services Librarian
>Three Rivers Public Library District
>Channahon, Illinois
>
>
>......................................................................
>Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
>Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
Kay Kelly
Reference Librarian
Cottage Hill Branch, Mobile Public Library
5025 Cottage Hill Road
Mobile, AL 36609
email [removed]@acan.net
voice-334-470-7772
fax-334-470-7711
http://www.mplonline.org

FROM: "Jeanne Linn" <[removed]@libby.org>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 5:43 PM

I just used this today to find Animorphs #53 as a matter of fact! Amazon is
so user friendly and handy in so many ways! I love the "What's Next" for
series, but it doesn't appear to have any juvenile books in it....do you
suppose that huge task will be taken on by someone? Jeanne


-----Original Message-----
From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
[[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Kay Kelly
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:04 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


I also use Amazon frequently, but take the reviews with a grain of salt.
They do include journal reviews on some titles which is helpful. I find
that it can be especially helpful if the customer is describing a book but
is unsure of the title. By reading the plot summary or customer reviews it
is possible to identify the book in many instances. Sometimes, they just
need to see a picture of the cover :) Another use I have found is with
series titles. We only do brief catalog records on paperback titles and
sometimes the cust. just wants "animorphs #54" and by checking Amazon I can
quickly find the title and then check my catalog. Also, the reader reviews
are helpful in determining the order of extensive series when I can't find
the info. elsewhere. I was trying to find the title to the third book in a
Catherine Cookson trilogy and lo and behold Amazon had a reprint that bound
all three together and I was able to find the title. So, even if some of
the reviews are biased it can be a useful tool.


At 01:38 PM 3/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
>
>>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators real
>>purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect at all well
>on
>>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general consumer.
>
>
>Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's reviews, and
>I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take much stock in them,
>however, because like any public forum, people tend to go into their own
>political agendas with books (For examples, check out any "hot" topics such
>as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books such as Star Wars.)
>
>But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think that
>Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it correctly. I
>certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but I've certainly used
>it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also used it when I'm looking for
>subject fiction, not so much by the people who've bought section, but by
>selecting the subject headings on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for
>plot summaries, one of my clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction
>list. She likes to have a good plot summary for all of the new books.
>
>There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of on
>standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of gay/lesbian
>fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have to do on a day to
>day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at Dominican, our professor
(Hi,
>Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The book I
>chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar works, I
>couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had a "store" on
>gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me in terms of finding
>similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought" so much (since there were
>lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on those lists) but by using the
>subject headings and so on.
>
>So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any tool,
in
>conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you a
good
>plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to get
>some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and checking
>out their plot summaries.
>
>Kelly Benson
>Adult Services Librarian
>Three Rivers Public Library District
>Channahon, Illinois
>
>
>......................................................................
>Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
>Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
Kay Kelly
Reference Librarian
Cottage Hill Branch, Mobile Public Library
5025 Cottage Hill Road
Mobile, AL 36609
email [removed]@acan.net
voice-334-470-7772
fax-334-470-7711
http://www.mplonline.org

FROM: Cindy Lunghofer <[removed]@yahoo.com>
REC'D: 3/16/01, 7:46 PM

I agree with those who think Amazon should be used
cautiously for RA. I am the RA librarian in our
system, and I've cautioned the Ref. Staff about using
the Amazon "People who bought this book also
bought..." as an RA source. There really are some
weird combinations there! And we all know that
nothing on a list can give you a perfect match. I had
a woman the other day who told me she liked romantic,
suspense books and after a pretty thorough Q&A, she
left with the latest Dean Koontz.Turned out she was
just calling it Romantic suspense, but really just
liked to be scared! She told me two days later she
loved Dean Koontz and wanted to read more! If I had
just given her a Romantic Suspense booklist, I would
have missed the mark.
I do use Amazon eveyrday for selection and in place
of Books in Print. Lately, I have been combining it
with Borders and B&N websites, as I have found titles
at the others that were not in Amazon ( but were in PW
and LJ). There are so mank other great, free RA tools
available, that we shouldn't rely on Amazon for RA.


=====
Cindy Lunghofer
Adult Services Librarian
East Providence Public Library
East Providence, RI


__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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FROM: Naomi Parkhurst <[removed]@mindspring.com>
REC'D: 3/17/01, 6:02 AM

One thing I haven't seen discussed in the ongoing Amazon questions are the lists compiled by readers on specific topics.

As an example, when you do a search in Amazon for Octavia Butler (one of the two African American science fiction writers I knew of up until recently), you get her books down the middle of the results screen, but down the right, you get a variety of reader's lists that include Octavia Butler:

Militant Black Science Fiction: A list by Kali Tal, University professor
Worth Reading More Than Once: A list by so-sweetly, Avid reader, Registered Nurse
The Greatest SF Books in the World... Ever: A list by mona_flebecki, book junkie
Read This!: A list by siddhi, Therapist
Rainy Days & Monday Nights: A list by melvamels, Avid reader
Not your typical Sci-Fi book: A list by solo42, Proffessional cynic
No Pulp: recent reads & indelible marks: A list by tranefan, free thinker
Black Science Fiction: A list by nappygirl, A fan
New American Testaments: Sacred/Spiri...: A list by Michael J. Mazza, ordained minister
Utopias and Distopias: Thoughtful Visions of the Future: A list by jetmb, researcher

Once you choose a list, you see a list of books chosen by that reader--and more lists on topics related to those books down the right hand side! It seems to be quite a network.

A limitation on using these lists is that you seem to have to search for a particular author or title. I have been unable to locate an index to the lists themselves. I would also guess that they can't contain books not listed in Amazon's catalog.

I haven't ever done Reader's Advisory - I'm taking a Popular Materials class in the UNC MLS program, which is why I . But it seems to me that these lists, with a little care, could be of great help, especially the ones on specific topics. They are certainly more focused than the "customers also bought...", since they are a group of books specifically chosen to go together.

I hope this is of help to someone; I've certainly been enjoying reading this listserv!

Naomi
--

Naomi Parkhurst <[removed]@mindspring.com>
Blue Moon Morris <http://homepage.mac.com/bluemoonmorris/>
Chapel Hill, NC

FROM: Kate McCaffrey <[removed]@yahoo.com>
REC'D: 3/17/01, 8:55 AM

If that's all we have to offer - why do they need us?
They could look it up themselves, or the information
could be provided by someone working for minimum wage.

I too recently sent students into public libraries as
part of an assignment about Reader's Advisory. I was
dismayed by the minimal help they received.

--- Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net> wrote:
> Last night my students reported on their first
> assignment, which was
> to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and
> ask if the library
> could suggest something like a book they had read
> and liked. On 3
> occasions, different students had librarians go to
> Amazon and
> recommend titles from the "People who bought this
> title also bought
> these" lists.
>
> I'm curious to find out what list members think
> about doing this.
>
> Mary K. Chelton
> --
>
**************************************************************************************
> Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY
> 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
> 286-4255 or 776-2166
> Work: Graduate School of Library and Information
> Studies, Queens
> College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd.,
> Flushing, NY
> 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667
> direct voice; 3797
> fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
>
**************************************************************************************
>
>
>
......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L:
http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html


=====
Kate McCaffrey
Petit Branch Library
105 Victoria Place
Syracuse NY 13210
315-435-4775
fax 315-435-2731

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

FROM: Lisa Olsen <[removed]@clsn1269.cumberland.lib.nc.us>
REC'D: 3/17/01, 9:16 AM

It has been interesting following the discussion about the use of Amazon
in RA work but in some ways I think many of you give Amazon too little
credit and Novelist too much. Just to test my premise I did a search on
Amazon for a book I recently read and enjoyed. The "people who bought
this item also bought ..." list gave me all the other titles by that
author but also several more titles that I have read and enjoyed including
a few on my to read list. When I did the same search in Novelist and
clicked on "Find similar titles," I got back 4150 titles most of which are
only read-a-likes in the sense that they are also science fiction.

That said, I agree that Amazon should not be relied upon as one's only
tool for reader's advisory.


__________________________________________________

Lisa A. Olsen

Information Services

Cumberland County Public Library & Information Center
East Regional Library
4809 Clinton Road
Fayetteville, NC 28301-8401

(910)485-2955

FROM: [removed]@aol.com
REC'D: 3/17/01, 9:16 AM

Mary K. asks: Why do they need us?

Well, I'll be the first to admit that I was never trained in RA - I was an
academic librarian at UMBC for 11 years (reference, media, maps, SF, music,
collection development, archives). However, my MSLS gave me a great
grounding in Question Negotiation, which I honed over 11 years doing
reference work - and still do it, by the way. Sometimes, I think the word
"Reference LIbrarian" is emblazoned on my forehead in invisible ink! Friends
and writer colleagues are always posing problems and conundrums - and I love
to find the answers! In any case - some of the most fun and challenges in my
library reference career came through the Question Negotiation process -
finding out what the patron REALLY wanted when he/she came up to the desk or
called in. And from what I've been reading on many Ficiton_L postings, the
same process is (probably) involved in RA.

Well, ladies and gentlemen - you can't "negotiate" with a list on Amazon.
Amazon's not going to able to tell you which book with a green cover and a
character named "Sean" that the patron read 25 years ago and desperately
wants to read again. Amazon.com is just a tool. It could be better, the
sidebar lists could be indexed, etc. But the public still needs the
librarian interface/question negotiation - or they could go straight to a
terminal either at home or in the library (if the library allows that access)
and just dial up Amazon. Sometimes I'd like to ask it questions, too!

And speaking of online databases, etc., wouldn't life be easier if entries on
Bibliofind and Alibris (etc) had plot summaries? There is the occasional one
- but all too occasional, for my taste.

Binnie Syril Braunstein
romance novelist/librarian at heart!

In a message dated 3/17/2001 9:47:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@yahoo.com writes:

<<
If that's all we have to offer - why do they need us?
They could look it up themselves, or the information
could be provided by someone working for minimum wage.

I too recently sent students into public libraries as
part of an assignment about Reader's Advisory. I was
dismayed by the minimal help they received. >>

FROM: "Warner" <[removed]@massed.net>
REC'D: 3/17/01, 10:40 AM

could you explain a little about question negotiation--sounds interesting.
Or is there a website on this topic? Judy
----- Original Message -----

FROM: Kaite Mediatore <[removed]@yahoo.com>
REC'D: 3/17/01, 10:40 AM

I consider it all hit or miss. I like to start with Amazon
for compiling readalikes for Oprah books, but usually the
"Other purchases" are other Oprah books! Thus, not very
helpful.

I must admit to having found some treasures in the "Other
purchases" lists, but that's just luck. I use that list for
my own RA work, not for a patron. None of the appeal
factors in reading are in use on the "Other Purchases"
list, so to me, it's not very helpful when dealing with a
patron face to face.

Of course, as a last ditch effort at suggesting reading
material, it's not bad.

My overall opinion is, Amazon is a somewhat useful tool,
but it shouldn't be the first one Advisors reach for.

And just FYI, People magazine did a small profile of
Harriet Klausner in one of their issues last year. I've
searched their online site and come up dry so don't have a
date for you all. If I remember correctly, she reads all
the books she reviews.

Kaite

--- Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net> wrote:
> Last night my students reported on their first
> assignment, which was
> to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if
> the library
> could suggest something like a book they had read and
> liked. On 3
> occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon
> and
> recommend titles from the "People who bought this title
> also bought
> these" lists.
>
> I'm curious to find out what list members think about
> doing this.
>
> Mary K. Chelton
> --
>
**************************************************************************************
> Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609.
> Phone: (631)
> 286-4255 or 776-2166
> Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies,
> Queens
> College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd.,
> Flushing, NY
> 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct
> voice; 3797
> fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
>
**************************************************************************************
>
>
>
......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L:
http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html


=====
Kaite Mediatore, Reader's Services Librarian
KCKPL Main Branch
625 Minnesota Ave.
Kansas City, KS 66101
913.279.2212 fx 913.279.2032
[removed]@kckpl.lib.ks.us

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

FROM: [removed]@aol.com
REC'D: 3/17/01, 12:24 PM

In a message dated 3/17/2001 11:34:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@massed.net writes:

<<
could you explain a little about question negotiation--sounds interesting.
Or is there a website on this topic? Judy >>

I don't know if there's a web site - but Question Negotiation was one of the
things we learned in various (FSU) library science reference courses. I was
taught to analyze a question, the way one analyzes a reference book/tool on
first use. (I.e., what kind of book is it - encyclopedia, dictionary, etc.;
what is its scope - inclusions/exclusions, etc.) With question negotiation,
the following are always lurking near the surface of my mind - even now:

How can I analyze the question?

What is being sought? VERIFICATION OF INFORMATION

What field does it relate to? e.g., MEDICINE

What period of time does it relate to, if relevant? e.g., HISTORICAL

What kind of reference tool will answer the question? (if any; if not,
where can I direct the patron - e.g., a library specializing in medical
history)

Below is one of my first actual reference questions. I was barely dry behind
the ears. A little boy came to the reference desk, his sneakers dangling
over his shoulders. His question: Oh, nothing complicated. He just wanted
to know how to extract DNA from the chloroplast of a tobacco leaf.
DUH...Desperate to stave off panic, I started the "Question Negotiation"
process - the attempt to find out what the patron really wants.

Where did you hear about this? From my daddy.
What was he doing? Reading a magazine.
What magazine? Scientific American.
Bingo! I called downstairs to the serials dept., we did a little searching,
and found the boy his article. I could then breathe a sigh of relief. Happy
ending. The patron was satisfied. That's what it's all about.

IMHO, of course.

And of course - sometimes QN is just luck. A faculty member once called and
asked how Sylvia Plath died. I guess I was just feeling either irreverent or
prescient - and blurted out - "She stuck her in a gas oven." Then I
researched the question - and found out - eerily enough - that that's exactly
what she had done.

Binnie Syril Braunstein
romance novelist/former librarian, apologizing in advance for the extensive
ramble above.

FROM: "Roberta S. Johnson" <[removed]@nslsilus.org>
REC'D: 3/17/01, 12:34 PM

Well, part of me is horrified that the librarians went to Amazon for recommendations.
The suggested titles are primarily based on purchase history, so when I look at
Amazon I see "personalized" recommendations based on the books I've bought for
other people. Or, other bestsellers, so you'll get Painted House and Scarlet Feather
when you look at Bonesetter's Daughter. Once I got TaeBo videos as a
recommendation! Amazon is frank about this -- it does say "Customers who bought
this book also bought:" after all.

What I do find very interesting and helpful is the recently added Listmania feature. Try
Tamora Pierce, and see the lists by fantasy fans: "My top ten fantasy books", etc.
These lists (especially for YA) are straight from the horse's mouth and often very
enlightening.

I also like the customer reviews to compare and contrast with the critical reviews,
conveniently available from the same page. And Harriet Klausner does participate in
Dorothy_L, go to Deja.com and search by her name to see her postings. I know that
several people suggested she was a pseudonym for several people, but she maintains
she is a real individual!

I think a product like NoveList, with a little investment in understanding how it works, is
much more useful than Amazon for making RA suggestions. And what about the
What do I Read Next genre books and othe reference sources? Or they could get
started by purchasing read-alike bookmarks from our own Ricki Nordmeyer! Heck,
you can use a magazine database that includes Booklist magazine and see if they
recommend read alikes for a particular title. Stop me, I just gave a workshop for RA
beginners and am chock full of suggestions. :-)

I wish I could talk to those staff who are using Amazon for RA. Amazon does so
many things well, but not this! Beginning RA staff, like Reference staff, should realize
that the Internet is one fabulous tool, but not always the first choice. And I hope those
people can attend the RA preconference at PLA next Year. :-)

RSJ


Roberta S. Johnson
Readers' Services Librarian
Des Plaines Public Library
[removed]@nslsilus.org
www.desplaines.lib.il.us
Opinions my own.

FROM: [removed]@aol.com
REC'D: 3/17/01, 12:56 PM

In a message dated 3/17/2001 1:23:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@nslsilus.org writes:

<<
I also like the customer reviews to compare and contrast with the critical
reviews,
conveniently available from the same page. And Harriet Klausner does
participate in
Dorothy_L, go to Deja.com and search by her name to see her postings. I
know that
several people suggested she was a pseudonym for several people, but she
maintains
she is a real individual!
>>

I met Harriet Klausner at the Romance Writers of America Conference in St.
Louis. (It was the year of THE FLOOD. Memorable - trust me!) At the time,
she looked very much like a real person - name tag and all. <g> So - I
think if looks are not deceiving, Harriet Klausner is, indeed, a real person.

Binnie Syril Braunstein
romance novelist/former librarian

FROM: "Warner" <[removed]@massed.net>
REC'D: 3/17/01, 6:19 PM

Thanks, that's interesting. Never thought about it that way. Judy
----- Original Message -----
From: <[removed]@aol.com>
To: Fiction_L <[removed]@maillist.webrary.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


> In a message dated 3/17/2001 11:34:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [removed]@massed.net writes:
>
> <<
> could you explain a little about question negotiation--sounds
interesting.
> Or is there a website on this topic? Judy >>
>
> I don't know if there's a web site - but Question Negotiation was one of
the
> things we learned in various (FSU) library science reference courses. I
was
> taught to analyze a question, the way one analyzes a reference book/tool
on
> first use. (I.e., what kind of book is it - encyclopedia, dictionary,
etc.;
> what is its scope - inclusions/exclusions, etc.) With question
negotiation,
> the following are always lurking near the surface of my mind - even now:
>
> How can I analyze the question?
>
> What is being sought? VERIFICATION OF INFORMATION
>
> What field does it relate to? e.g., MEDICINE
>
> What period of time does it relate to, if relevant? e.g., HISTORICAL
>
> What kind of reference tool will answer the question? (if any; if
not,
> where can I direct the patron - e.g., a library specializing in medical
> history)
>
> Below is one of my first actual reference questions. I was barely dry
behind
> the ears. A little boy came to the reference desk, his sneakers dangling
> over his shoulders. His question: Oh, nothing complicated. He just
wanted
> to know how to extract DNA from the chloroplast of a tobacco leaf.
> DUH...Desperate to stave off panic, I started the "Question Negotiation"
> process - the attempt to find out what the patron really wants.
>
> Where did you hear about this? From my daddy.
> What was he doing? Reading a magazine.
> What magazine? Scientific American.
> Bingo! I called downstairs to the serials dept., we did a little
searching,
> and found the boy his article. I could then breathe a sigh of relief.
Happy
> ending. The patron was satisfied. That's what it's all about.
>
> IMHO, of course.
>
> And of course - sometimes QN is just luck. A faculty member once called
and
> asked how Sylvia Plath died. I guess I was just feeling either irreverent
or
> prescient - and blurted out - "She stuck her in a gas oven." Then I
> researched the question - and found out - eerily enough - that that's
exactly
> what she had done.
>
> Binnie Syril Braunstein
> romance novelist/former librarian, apologizing in advance for the
extensive
> ramble above.
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: Kathleen Stipek <[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 7:37 AM

I'm not sure who deserves more pity--library school students or the public
librarians in the towns where they're going to library school or their home
towns when they're doing distance learning. Profs are always sending
students to local libraries to prove some professorial point--usually the
inadequacy of public librarians. The local librarians know that no matter
how much they give, the project will have been designed to prove that point.
Back in the Jurassic when I went to Florida State, I was sent to the Leon
County Library on a couple of occasions, once to explore books by mail and
once to explore response to reference questions, and when I came back with
positive experiences both times my profs were less than pleased with me.

Perhaps it is time that library school profs considered the possibility that
most public librarians most of the time are doing their level best for the
good folks who pay their salaries. There may be slackers out there, and on
any given day any one of us might give better service by staying home, but
by and large public librarians care deeply about the work they do and about
doing it better.

........................................................................
Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
[removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)

"Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac




-----Original Message-----
From: Kate McCaffrey [[removed]@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 9:47 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


If that's all we have to offer - why do they need us?
They could look it up themselves, or the information
could be provided by someone working for minimum wage.

I too recently sent students into public libraries as
part of an assignment about Reader's Advisory. I was
dismayed by the minimal help they received.

--- Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net> wrote:
> Last night my students reported on their first
> assignment, which was
> to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and
> ask if the library
> could suggest something like a book they had read
> and liked. On 3
> occasions, different students had librarians go to
> Amazon and
> recommend titles from the "People who bought this
> title also bought
> these" lists.
>
> I'm curious to find out what list members think
> about doing this.
>
> Mary K. Chelton
> --
>
****************************************************************************
**********
> Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY
> 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
> 286-4255 or 776-2166
> Work: Graduate School of Library and Information
> Studies, Queens
> College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd.,
> Flushing, NY
> 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667
> direct voice; 3797
> fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
>
****************************************************************************
**********
>
>
>
......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L:
http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html


=====
Kate McCaffrey
Petit Branch Library
105 Victoria Place
Syracuse NY 13210
315-435-4775
fax 315-435-2731

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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FROM: Carol Elmore <[removed]@westga.edu>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 8:29 AM

Thank you Kathleen for addressing this problem. I, too have had library
students come in and leave in disbelief because we don't have some
esoteric reference resourse they need for an assignment.
Most public libraries are fighting for every penny of funding they have
and, excuse us, if we use that funding for books our general public wants,
needs and uses everyday rather than costly reference books only library
students use. I usually send them to one of the local college libraries.
It remains a problem, albeit, probably one of the lesser ones I face each
day!
Carole Elmore

On Mon, 19 Mar 2001, Kathleen Stipek wrote:

> I'm not sure who deserves more pity--library school students or the public
> librarians in the towns where they're going to library school or their home
> towns when they're doing distance learning. Profs are always sending
> students to local libraries to prove some professorial point--usually the
> inadequacy of public librarians. The local librarians know that no matter
> how much they give, the project will have been designed to prove that point.
> Back in the Jurassic when I went to Florida State, I was sent to the Leon
> County Library on a couple of occasions, once to explore books by mail and
> once to explore response to reference questions, and when I came back with
> positive experiences both times my profs were less than pleased with me.
>
> Perhaps it is time that library school profs considered the possibility that
> most public librarians most of the time are doing their level best for the
> good folks who pay their salaries. There may be slackers out there, and on
> any given day any one of us might give better service by staying home, but
> by and large public librarians care deeply about the work they do and about
> doing it better.
>
> ........................................................................
> Kathleen Stipek, Adult Services/Interlibrary Loans, Alachua County
> Library District (FMG), 401 E. University AV, Gainesville FL 32601
> [removed]@exchange.acld.lib.fl.us)
> 352-334-3938 (v) 352-334-3948 (f)
>
> "Non, merci."--Cyrano de Bergerac
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kate McCaffrey [[removed]@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 9:47 AM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work
>
>
> If that's all we have to offer - why do they need us?
> They could look it up themselves, or the information
> could be provided by someone working for minimum wage.
>
> I too recently sent students into public libraries as
> part of an assignment about Reader's Advisory. I was
> dismayed by the minimal help they received.
>
>
>
> --- Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net> wrote:
> > Last night my students reported on their first
> > assignment, which was
> > to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and
> > ask if the library
> > could suggest something like a book they had read
> > and liked. On 3
> > occasions, different students had librarians go to
> > Amazon and
> > recommend titles from the "People who bought this
> > title also bought
> > these" lists.
> >
> > I'm curious to find out what list members think
> > about doing this.
> >
> > Mary K. Chelton
> > --
> >
> ****************************************************************************
> **********
> > Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY
> > 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
> > 286-4255 or 776-2166
> > Work: Graduate School of Library and Information
> > Studies, Queens
> > College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd.,
> > Flushing, NY
> > 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667
> > direct voice; 3797
> > fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
> >
> ****************************************************************************
> **********
> >
> >
> >
> ......................................................................
> > Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> > Everything Fiction_L:
> http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
>
> =====
> Kate McCaffrey
> Petit Branch Library
> 105 Victoria Place
> Syracuse NY 13210
> 315-435-4775
> fax 315-435-2731
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
> http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: Viccy Kemp <[removed]@cityofcarrollton.com>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 8:50 AM

Harriet Klausner is also a member of DorothyL, the mystery mail group. There
has been much flaming of her ongoing reviews in the group and she has agreed
to only post two-three a week. She has stated on more than one occasion that
she does not review books she doesn't like because there are too many good
books out there. She is a speed reader and swears that she really does read
all the books she reviews. I have no reason to doubt her because when she
reviews books I have read, they are spot-on. Her reviews are a cross between
true critical reviews and summaries of the books.
HTH
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!

-----Original Message-----
From: [removed]@aol.com [[removed]@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:13 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


In a message dated 3/16/2001 12:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[removed]@uwsp.edu writes:

<<
Brad,
I'll second your thoughts. One of my aims in life is to figure out how
Harriet Klausner (sp?), one of the regular Amazon reader/commentors (is she
a plant?) reads as much as she does. I have read enough of the titles that
she has recommended that I trust her judgment as much as any other
reviewer.
Jan Doxtator
Portage County Public Library
Stevens Point, WI 54481 >>

Harriet Klaussner is not a "plant" as far as I know. She's a free-lance
reviewer (I think) who also reviews for Painted Rock/Under the Covers. She
does a lot of romance books, among others.

Binnie Syril Braunstein
romance novelist/former librarian

FROM: Viccy Kemp <[removed]@cityofcarrollton.com>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 9:00 AM

If you have access to Library Journal, last year they did four separate
articles on the Oprah Book Club and had pages of Oprah readalikes. I cribbed
from them shamelessly!
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want em!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kaite Mediatore [[removed]@yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2001 10:36 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work


I consider it all hit or miss. I like to start with Amazon
for compiling readalikes for Oprah books, but usually the
"Other purchases" are other Oprah books! Thus, not very
helpful.

I must admit to having found some treasures in the "Other
purchases" lists, but that's just luck. I use that list for
my own RA work, not for a patron. None of the appeal
factors in reading are in use on the "Other Purchases"
list, so to me, it's not very helpful when dealing with a
patron face to face.

Of course, as a last ditch effort at suggesting reading
material, it's not bad.

My overall opinion is, Amazon is a somewhat useful tool,
but it shouldn't be the first one Advisors reach for.

And just FYI, People magazine did a small profile of
Harriet Klausner in one of their issues last year. I've
searched their online site and come up dry so don't have a
date for you all. If I remember correctly, she reads all
the books she reviews.

Kaite

--- Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net> wrote:
> Last night my students reported on their first
> assignment, which was
> to go anonymously to 2 local public libraries and ask if
> the library
> could suggest something like a book they had read and
> liked. On 3
> occasions, different students had librarians go to Amazon
> and
> recommend titles from the "People who bought this title
> also bought
> these" lists.
>
> I'm curious to find out what list members think about
> doing this.
>
> Mary K. Chelton
> --
>
****************************************************************************
**********
> Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609.
> Phone: (631)
> 286-4255 or 776-2166
> Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies,
> Queens
> College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd.,
> Flushing, NY
> 11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct
> voice; 3797
> fax, e-mail [removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net
>
****************************************************************************
**********
>
>
>
......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L:
http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html


=====
Kaite Mediatore, Reader's Services Librarian
KCKPL Main Branch
625 Minnesota Ave.
Kansas City, KS 66101
913.279.2212 fx 913.279.2032
[removed]@kckpl.lib.ks.us

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

FROM: <[removed]@bramlib.on.ca>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 9:43 AM

Lisa, Novelist offers some quite enlightening helps in the use of Novelist,
so that you don't get a broad range of titles that relate to a vast list of
subject headings.

After you open Novelist, click on Start, then Adult/Continue. You will then
see the page that asks you to choose your search category. If you scroll
down to the bottom of that page, you'll see a heading "For Staff Only."
Once you click on that, you'll find a treasure trove of items, but perhaps
the most practical for our usual purposes is the section entitled "Sample
Searches." If you go through each of these searches, you will not only
learn how to limit a search to something useful for your patron, but you
will also find other nuggets you may not have realized are even offered by
Novelist.

While I don't deny the usefulness of Amazon--I use it myself quite often to
verify titles--I do think Novelist is qualitatively better.

For what it's worth....


Maureen

* * * * * * *
Never apologize for your reading tastes.

Maureen O'Connor
Brampton Public Library
[removed]@bramlib.on.ca

The opinions expressed above are mine alone.

FROM: Dennis Lien <[removed]@tc.umn.edu>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 10:25 AM

At 12:13 PM 3/17/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Well, part of me is horrified that the librarians went to Amazon for
recommendations.
>The suggested titles are primarily based on purchase history, so when I
look at
>Amazon I see "personalized" recommendations based on the books I've bought
for
>other people. <snip>


My wife works in acquistions at an agricultural library, and often uses
Amazon for quick verification information (spelling of an author's name,
verifying publisher/price, that sort of thing)--she finds it often faster
and more useful than BOOKS IN PRINT for such, especially for non-US books.

She also checks it now and then on breaks for books of personal interest,
including seeing if there are any new comments or sales figures movements
for her own book, THE JOY OF HOME WINEMAKING (free plug; 1996 Avon tp).

As a result, she's bemused to ponder that anyone using "her" data to
construct such a list will come up with things like "People who bought
THE JOY OF HOME WINEMAKING also bought ATLAS OF NATIONAL FORESTS OF
NEW ZEALAND; A HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSITY OF IOWA AGRICULTURAL
EXTENSION SERVICE; ILLUSTRATED TEXT OF DISEASES OF THE HORSE...."


Dennis Lien / U of Minnesota Libraries // [removed]@tc.umn.edu

FROM: Leslie Williams <[removed]@mail.nhfpl.org>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 3:43 PM

Thank you Kathleen and Kate for the important point you both made.
Not every urban public library has the resources to adequately support
reader's advisory queries. Our library does the best that it can by using
What Do I Read Next, NoveList, and various online resources. However in a
pinch we will go to Amazon for hints of readalikes and for a list current
African American authors & titles.

Our patrons are usually happy because we've exhausted all resources.

Leslie Williams
New Haven Free Public Library
New Haven, CT

FROM: Jean Meadors <[removed]@ccpl.ci.corpus-christi.tx.us>
REC'D: 3/19/01, 4:25 PM

I was just curious about the libraries that she sent her students into, I know at
our library there are only 2 librarians on staff (1 children's and 1 adult) , the
rest of para-professionals. We not only don't have the time to do a great
reference interview but also don't have the staff. We do not have a seperate
reference desk, patrons come up to the circulation desk to ask for help. So,
maybe these libraries have similar problems. No staff, no space and no time to
do a really good job. Our paraprofessionals do as good of a job as they can with
the training and skills they have.
Jean


[removed]@aol.com wrote:

> Mary K. asks: Why do they need us?
>
> Well, I'll be the first to admit that I was never trained in RA - I was an
> academic librarian at UMBC for 11 years (reference, media, maps, SF, music,
> collection development, archives). However, my MSLS gave me a great
> grounding in Question Negotiation, which I honed over 11 years doing
> reference work - and still do it, by the way. Sometimes, I think the word
> "Reference LIbrarian" is emblazoned on my forehead in invisible ink! Friends
> and writer colleagues are always posing problems and conundrums - and I love
> to find the answers! In any case - some of the most fun and challenges in my
> library reference career came through the Question Negotiation process -
> finding out what the patron REALLY wanted when he/she came up to the desk or
> called in. And from what I've been reading on many Ficiton_L postings, the
> same process is (probably) involved in RA.
>
> Well, ladies and gentlemen - you can't "negotiate" with a list on Amazon.
> Amazon's not going to able to tell you which book with a green cover and a
> character named "Sean" that the patron read 25 years ago and desperately
> wants to read again. Amazon.com is just a tool. It could be better, the
> sidebar lists could be indexed, etc. But the public still needs the
> librarian interface/question negotiation - or they could go straight to a
> terminal either at home or in the library (if the library allows that access)
> and just dial up Amazon. Sometimes I'd like to ask it questions, too!
>
> And speaking of online databases, etc., wouldn't life be easier if entries on
> Bibliofind and Alibris (etc) had plot summaries? There is the occasional one
> - but all too occasional, for my taste.
>
> Binnie Syril Braunstein
> romance novelist/librarian at heart!
>
> In a message dated 3/17/2001 9:47:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> [removed]@yahoo.com writes:
>
> <<
> If that's all we have to offer - why do they need us?
> They could look it up themselves, or the information
> could be provided by someone working for minimum wage.
>
> I too recently sent students into public libraries as
> part of an assignment about Reader's Advisory. I was
> dismayed by the minimal help they received. >>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: Mary K Chelton <[removed]@pop.mail.rcn.net>
REC'D: 3/20/01, 9:03 PM

>
>Mary K, do your students make some assessment of the RA resources
>available at the libraries where they are asking for RA help? It seems to
>me that knowing what resources the librarians have to work with is an
>important part of evaluating the kind of service that is offered. If all
>you have is the Internet, and no trining in online resources for RA,
>Amazon can look like a great tool.
>
>Barry

No, Barry, the idea is to simulate an actual RA experience. We are
using an RA adaptation of the exact interview protocol Catherine
Ross's students used for what was reported in her Flying a Light
Aircraft article a couple years back in RQ (now RUSAQ).

Mary K.
--
**************************************************************************************
Home: 35 Mercury Ave., East Patchogue, NY 11772-4609. Phone: (631)
286-4255 or 776-2166
Work: Graduate School of Library and Information Studies, Queens
College, 254 Rosenthal Library, 65-30 Kissena Blvd., Flushing, NY
11367. Phone: (718) 997-3790 general office; 3667 direct voice; 3797
fax, e-mail [removed]@optonline.net
**************************************************************************************

FROM: "Todd Caviness" <[removed]@mcpl.lib.mo.us>
REC'D: 3/20/01, 8:07 AM

We have created a database of juvenile series and sequels, it
currently has around 10,000 book titles and around 900 series titles.
It's been available for just a couple of months so it's still under
development and there are holes in it. The URL is
http://www.mcpl.lib.mo.us/readers/series/juv/

Thanks
todd

> I just used this today to find Animorphs #53 as a matter of fact!
> Amazon is so user friendly and handy in so many ways! I love the
> "What's Next" for series, but it doesn't appear to have any juvenile
> books in it....do you suppose that huge task will be taken on by
> someone? Jeanne
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
> [[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Kay Kelly
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:04 PM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work
>
>
> I also use Amazon frequently, but take the reviews with a grain of
> salt. They do include journal reviews on some titles which is helpful.
> I find that it can be especially helpful if the customer is
> describing a book but is unsure of the title. By reading the plot
> summary or customer reviews it is possible to identify the book in
> many instances. Sometimes, they just need to see a picture of the
> cover :) Another use I have found is with series titles. We only do
> brief catalog records on paperback titles and sometimes the cust. just
> wants "animorphs #54" and by checking Amazon I can quickly find the
> title and then check my catalog. Also, the reader reviews are helpful
> in determining the order of extensive series when I can't find the
> info. elsewhere. I was trying to find the title to the third book in
> a Catherine Cookson trilogy and lo and behold Amazon had a reprint
> that bound all three together and I was able to find the title. So,
> even if some of the reviews are biased it can be a useful tool.
>
>
>
>
> At 01:38 PM 3/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators
> >>real purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect
> >>at all well
> >on
> >>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general
> >>consumer.
> >
> >
> >Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's
> >reviews, and I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take
> >much stock in them, however, because like any public forum, people
> >tend to go into their own political agendas with books (For examples,
> >check out any "hot" topics such as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books
> >such as Star Wars.)
> >
> >But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think
> >that Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it
> >correctly. I certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but
> >I've certainly used it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also
> >used it when I'm looking for subject fiction, not so much by the
> >people who've bought section, but by selecting the subject headings
> >on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for plot summaries, one of my
> >clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction list. She likes to
> >have a good plot summary for all of the new books.
> >
> >There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of
> >on standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of
> >gay/lesbian fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have
> >to do on a day to day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at
> >Dominican, our professor
> (Hi,
> >Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The
> >book I chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar
> >works, I couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had
> >a "store" on gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me
> >in terms of finding similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought"
> >so much (since there were lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on
> >those lists) but by using the subject headings and so on.
> >
> >So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any
> >tool,
> in
> >conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you
> >a
> good
> >plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to
> >get some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and
> >checking out their plot summaries.
> >
> >Kelly Benson
> >Adult Services Librarian
> >Three Rivers Public Library District
> >Channahon, Illinois
> >
> >
> >.....................................................................
> >. Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives? Everything
> >Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
> >
> Kay Kelly
> Reference Librarian
> Cottage Hill Branch, Mobile Public Library
> 5025 Cottage Hill Road
> Mobile, AL 36609
> email [removed]@acan.net
> voice-334-470-7772
> fax-334-470-7711
> http://www.mplonline.org
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives? Everything
> Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives? Everything
> Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

===========================

Todd Caviness
Automation Specialist
Mid-Continent Public Library
[removed]@mcpl.lib.mo.us
http://www.mcpl.lib.mo.us

FROM: "Jeanne Linn" <[removed]@libby.org>
REC'D: 3/20/01, 12:12 PM

Thank you for letting us know! Jeanne


-----Original Message-----
From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
[[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Todd Caviness
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 7:04 AM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: RE: Use of Amazon in RA work - J series


We have created a database of juvenile series and sequels, it
currently has around 10,000 book titles and around 900 series titles.
It's been available for just a couple of months so it's still under
development and there are holes in it. The URL is
http://www.mcpl.lib.mo.us/readers/series/juv/

Thanks
todd

> I just used this today to find Animorphs #53 as a matter of fact!
> Amazon is so user friendly and handy in so many ways! I love the
> "What's Next" for series, but it doesn't appear to have any juvenile
> books in it....do you suppose that huge task will be taken on by
> someone? Jeanne
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [removed]@maillist.webrary.org
> [[removed]@maillist.webrary.org]On Behalf Of Kay Kelly
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 4:04 PM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Re: Use of Amazon in RA work
>
>
> I also use Amazon frequently, but take the reviews with a grain of
> salt. They do include journal reviews on some titles which is helpful.
> I find that it can be especially helpful if the customer is
> describing a book but is unsure of the title. By reading the plot
> summary or customer reviews it is possible to identify the book in
> many instances. Sometimes, they just need to see a picture of the
> cover :) Another use I have found is with series titles. We only do
> brief catalog records on paperback titles and sometimes the cust. just
> wants "animorphs #54" and by checking Amazon I can quickly find the
> title and then check my catalog. Also, the reader reviews are helpful
> in determining the order of extensive series when I can't find the
> info. elsewhere. I was trying to find the title to the third book in
> a Catherine Cookson trilogy and lo and behold Amazon had a reprint
> that bound all three together and I was able to find the title. So,
> even if some of the reviews are biased it can be a useful tool.
>
>
>
>
> At 01:38 PM 3/16/01 -0600, you wrote:
> >
> >>This brings up an interesting question: Are the Amazon commentators
> >>real purchasers/readers? If they are plants, it would not reflect
> >>at all well
> >on
> >>the comments as RA tools--or even purchase ideas for the general
> >>consumer.
> >
> >
> >Well, I've had some reviews on there so they are real people's
> >reviews, and I've recognized people I've know as well. I don't take
> >much stock in them, however, because like any public forum, people
> >tend to go into their own political agendas with books (For examples,
> >check out any "hot" topics such as Harry Potter or any "fandom" books
> >such as Star Wars.)
> >
> >But getting back to the original topic of this discussion, I think
> >that Amazon along with any other tool can be used if you use it
> >correctly. I certainly wouldn't use it as my sole source of RA, but
> >I've certainly used it for finding non-fiction titles. I've also
> >used it when I'm looking for subject fiction, not so much by the
> >people who've bought section, but by selecting the subject headings
> >on the bottom screen. Amazon is useful for plot summaries, one of my
> >clerks uses it when she puts out our new fiction list. She likes to
> >have a good plot summary for all of the new books.
> >
> >There are also certain genres that you can't find a good selection of
> >on standard RA tools right now. I'm thinking particularly of
> >gay/lesbian fiction. I don't know how much of that many of you have
> >to do on a day to day basis but when I took Reader's Advisory at
> >Dominican, our professor
> (Hi,
> >Dr. Crowley) had us all read books from the gay/lesbian genre. The
> >book I chose was very interesting but when I went looking for similar
> >works, I couldn't find much, I ended up using Amazon which has or had
> >a "store" on gay and lesbian literature. I opened more doors for me
> >in terms of finding similar fiction, I didn't use the "also bought"
> >so much (since there were lots of Rita Mae Brown cat mysteries on
> >those lists) but by using the subject headings and so on.
> >
> >So I wouldn't discount Amazon completely, use it like you would any
> >tool,
> in
> >conjuction with others. For example, NoveList doesn't always give you
> >a
> good
> >plot summary for a book you're looking at, so get use that source to
> >get some titles then fine tune your selection by going to Amazon and
> >checking out their plot summaries.
> >
> >Kelly Benson
> >Adult Services Librarian
> >Three Rivers Public Library District
> >Channahon, Illinois
> >
> >
> >.....................................................................
> >. Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives? Everything
> >Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
> >
> Kay Kelly
> Reference Librarian
> Cottage Hill Branch, Mobile Public Library
> 5025 Cottage Hill Road
> Mobile, AL 36609
> email [removed]@acan.net
> voice-334-470-7772
> fax-334-470-7711
> http://www.mplonline.org
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives? Everything
> Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives? Everything
> Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

===========================

Todd Caviness
Automation Specialist
Mid-Continent Public Library
[removed]@mcpl.lib.mo.us
http://www.mcpl.lib.mo.us

FROM: <[removed]@bramlib.on.ca>
REC'D: 3/20/01, 4:06 PM

What a wonderful source! I'll happily pass it on to all our staff.

Thanks.

Maureen


* * * * * * *
Never apologize for your reading tastes.

Maureen O'Connor
Brampton Public Library
[removed]@bramlib.on.ca

The opinions expressed above are mine alone.

FROM: "Cynthia Orr" <[removed]@cpl.org>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 8:09 AM

I think you're right about most library staff members doing the best they can with
meager resources and training, Jean, but I think evaluating service can be a
beginning step to getting better training. And with better training, people will buy
the best resources they can afford, join lists like this one and generally work to
improve things even more.

For instance, years ago in the state of Maryland, if I recall correctly, a "secret
shopper" approach to evaluating reference service was undertaken. Librarians were
very surprised and appalled to learn that the correct answer was received by the
"undercover patron" only a little over half the time. Because of that, Maryland, and
now many other states, have developed self-training reference modules, and one would
hope that reference service has improved greatly even in smaller libraries without
many resources. I know that in Ohio, the result is available in workshop form,
including a printed handbook for participants to keep, or on the Web:
http://www.olc.org/ore/.

So my point is that if we are brave enough to face the facts as they really are, then
we have a shot at improving. If we are afraid to evaluate, then we won't know what
training or additional resources are needed. And I think it would be better if we did
a self-evaluation and worked to improve things ourselves, than if we had an outside
organization "discover" poor service and spread the word to the public.

Just MHO.

Cindy

Jean Meadors wrote:

> I was just curious about the libraries that she sent her students into, I know at
> our library there are only 2 librarians on staff (1 children's and 1 adult) , the
> rest of para-professionals. We not only don't have the time to do a great
> reference interview but also don't have the staff. We do not have a seperate
> reference desk, patrons come up to the circulation desk to ask for help. So,
> maybe these libraries have similar problems. No staff, no space and no time to
> do a really good job. Our paraprofessionals do as good of a job as they can with
> the training and skills they have.
> Jean

--
**********************************************************************
Cynthia Orr Email: [removed]@cpl.org
Collection Manager Phone: 216-623-2906
Cleveland Public Library Fax: 216-623-2977
17133 Lake Shore Boulevard
Cleveland, OH 44110 http://www.cpl.org
**********************************************************************

FROM: Carol Elmore <[removed]@westga.edu>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 8:40 AM

I work in a medium size library with 3 full time and 1 part time person to
cover six days and two nights of reference work. Usually only one of us is
at the Reference Desk at a time. I, at times, am not giving the best
service I can and I am aware that I am not...I also am aware of the reason
I'm not (without an evaluating service) It is because I am also
responsible for overseeing 11 computers - signing people in, re-booting
frozencomputers, showing people who have never used a computer what to do,
helping someone use the word processers - all while answering reference
questions at the Reference Desk. Personally, I think libraries need to
decide if they are libraries or computer centers - if they are both money
needs to be found for more staff members so we have time to provide good
service to all patrons.
Not really as disgusted as I sound...just tired.
Carole Elmore


On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Cynthia Orr wrote:

> I think you're right about most library staff members doing the best they can with
> meager resources and training, Jean, but I think evaluating service can be a
> beginning step to getting better training. And with better training, people will buy
> the best resources they can afford, join lists like this one and generally work to
> improve things even more.
>
> For instance, years ago in the state of Maryland, if I recall correctly, a "secret
> shopper" approach to evaluating reference service was undertaken. Librarians were
> very surprised and appalled to learn that the correct answer was received by the
> "undercover patron" only a little over half the time. Because of that, Maryland, and
> now many other states, have developed self-training reference modules, and one would
> hope that reference service has improved greatly even in smaller libraries without
> many resources. I know that in Ohio, the result is available in workshop form,
> including a printed handbook for participants to keep, or on the Web:
> http://www.olc.org/ore/.
>
> So my point is that if we are brave enough to face the facts as they really are, then
> we have a shot at improving. If we are afraid to evaluate, then we won't know what
> training or additional resources are needed. And I think it would be better if we did
> a self-evaluation and worked to improve things ourselves, than if we had an outside
> organization "discover" poor service and spread the word to the public.
>
> Just MHO.
>
> Cindy
>
> Jean Meadors wrote:
>
> > I was just curious about the libraries that she sent her students into, I know at
> > our library there are only 2 librarians on staff (1 children's and 1 adult) , the
> > rest of para-professionals. We not only don't have the time to do a great
> > reference interview but also don't have the staff. We do not have a seperate
> > reference desk, patrons come up to the circulation desk to ask for help. So,
> > maybe these libraries have similar problems. No staff, no space and no time to
> > do a really good job. Our paraprofessionals do as good of a job as they can with
> > the training and skills they have.
> > Jean
>
> --
> **********************************************************************
> Cynthia Orr Email: [removed]@cpl.org
> Collection Manager Phone: 216-623-2906
> Cleveland Public Library Fax: 216-623-2977
> 17133 Lake Shore Boulevard
> Cleveland, OH 44110 http://www.cpl.org
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: "Cynthia Orr" <[removed]@cpl.org>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 9:23 AM

Carol,

Been there, done that, know exactly what you mean, and you are right. Having enough staff
(and the right kind of staff) is a big part of the equation. Some libraries have begun
hiring part-time computer aides during busy times, or after school monitors to help with
crowd control and homework help, etc., but this is a big problem.

C (hope you get a chance to put your feet up today <g>)

Carol Elmore wrote:

> I work in a medium size library with 3 full time and 1 part time person to
> cover six days and two nights of reference work. Usually only one of us is
> at the Reference Desk at a time. I, at times, am not giving the best
> service I can and I am aware that I am not...I also am aware of the reason
> I'm not (without an evaluating service) It is because I am also
> responsible for overseeing 11 computers - signing people in, re-booting
> frozencomputers, showing people who have never used a computer what to do,
> helping someone use the word processers - all while answering reference
> questions at the Reference Desk. Personally, I think libraries need to
> decide if they are libraries or computer centers - if they are both money
> needs to be found for more staff members so we have time to provide good
> service to all patrons.
> Not really as disgusted as I sound...just tired.
> Carole Elmore
>
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Cynthia Orr wrote:
>
> > I think you're right about most library staff members doing the best they can with
> > meager resources and training, Jean, but I think evaluating service can be a
> > beginning step to getting better training. And with better training, people will buy
> > the best resources they can afford, join lists like this one and generally work to
> > improve things even more.
> >
> > For instance, years ago in the state of Maryland, if I recall correctly, a "secret
> > shopper" approach to evaluating reference service was undertaken. Librarians were
> > very surprised and appalled to learn that the correct answer was received by the
> > "undercover patron" only a little over half the time. Because of that, Maryland, and
> > now many other states, have developed self-training reference modules, and one would
> > hope that reference service has improved greatly even in smaller libraries without
> > many resources. I know that in Ohio, the result is available in workshop form,
> > including a printed handbook for participants to keep, or on the Web:
> > http://www.olc.org/ore/.
> >
> > So my point is that if we are brave enough to face the facts as they really are, then
> > we have a shot at improving. If we are afraid to evaluate, then we won't know what
> > training or additional resources are needed. And I think it would be better if we did
> > a self-evaluation and worked to improve things ourselves, than if we had an outside
> > organization "discover" poor service and spread the word to the public.
> >
> > Just MHO.
> >
> > Cindy

--
**********************************************************************
Cynthia Orr Email: [removed]@cpl.org
Collection Manager Phone: 216-623-2906
Cleveland Public Library Fax: 216-623-2977
17133 Lake Shore Boulevard
Cleveland, OH 44110 http://www.cpl.org
**********************************************************************

FROM: "April Hill" <[removed]@gwmail.plano.gov>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 11:17 AM

Hooray - applause, applause. I totally agree. We have people who walk away because no one is at the desk because we are unjamming a printer, etc., etc.

>>> [removed]@westga.edu 03/21/01 08:35AM >>>
I work in a medium size library with 3 full time and 1 part time person to
cover six days and two nights of reference work. Usually only one of us is
at the Reference Desk at a time. I, at times, am not giving the best
service I can and I am aware that I am not...I also am aware of the reason
I'm not (without an evaluating service) It is because I am also
responsible for overseeing 11 computers - signing people in, re-booting
frozencomputers, showing people who have never used a computer what to do,
helping someone use the word processers - all while answering reference
questions at the Reference Desk. Personally, I think libraries need to
decide if they are libraries or computer centers - if they are both money
needs to be found for more staff members so we have time to provide good
service to all patrons.
Not really as disgusted as I sound...just tired.
Carole Elmore


On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Cynthia Orr wrote:

> I think you're right about most library staff members doing the best they can with
> meager resources and training, Jean, but I think evaluating service can be a
> beginning step to getting better training. And with better training, people will buy
> the best resources they can afford, join lists like this one and generally work to
> improve things even more.
>
> For instance, years ago in the state of Maryland, if I recall correctly, a "secret
> shopper" approach to evaluating reference service was undertaken. Librarians were
> very surprised and appalled to learn that the correct answer was received by the
> "undercover patron" only a little over half the time. Because of that, Maryland, and
> now many other states, have developed self-training reference modules, and one would
> hope that reference service has improved greatly even in smaller libraries without
> many resources. I know that in Ohio, the result is available in workshop form,
> including a printed handbook for participants to keep, or on the Web:
> http://www.olc.org/ore/.
>
> So my point is that if we are brave enough to face the facts as they really are, then
> we have a shot at improving. If we are afraid to evaluate, then we won't know what
> training or additional resources are needed. And I think it would be better if we did
> a self-evaluation and worked to improve things ourselves, than if we had an outside
> organization "discover" poor service and spread the word to the public.
>
> Just MHO.
>
> Cindy
>
> Jean Meadors wrote:
>
> > I was just curious about the libraries that she sent her students into, I know at
> > our library there are only 2 librarians on staff (1 children's and 1 adult) , the
> > rest of para-professionals. We not only don't have the time to do a great
> > reference interview but also don't have the staff. We do not have a seperate
> > reference desk, patrons come up to the circulation desk to ask for help. So,
> > maybe these libraries have similar problems. No staff, no space and no time to
> > do a really good job. Our paraprofessionals do as good of a job as they can with
> > the training and skills they have.
> > Jean
>
> --
> **********************************************************************
> Cynthia Orr Email: [removed]@cpl.org
> Collection Manager Phone: 216-623-2906
> Cleveland Public Library Fax: 216-623-2977
> 17133 Lake Shore Boulevard
> Cleveland, OH 44110 http://www.cpl.org
> **********************************************************************
>
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

FROM: Jean Meadors <[removed]@ccpl.ci.corpus-christi.tx.us>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 12:00 PM

Agreed, I think it would be great to have more training. It just doesn't seem to happen
down here. My point wasn't that we shouldn't have more training, but that maybe the
staff they encountered hadn't had the training they need.
Jean
.

Cynthia Orr wrote:

> I think you're right about most library staff members doing the best they can with
> meager resources and training, Jean, but I think evaluating service can be a
> beginning step to getting better training. And with better training, people will buy
> the best resources they can afford, join lists like this one and generally work to
> improve things even more.
>
> For instance, years ago in the state of Maryland, if I recall correctly, a "secret
> shopper" approach to evaluating reference service was undertaken. Librarians were
> very surprised and appalled to learn that the correct answer was received by the
> "undercover patron" only a little over half the time. Because of that, Maryland, and
> now many other states, have developed self-training reference modules, and one would
> hope that reference service has improved greatly even in smaller libraries without
> many resources. I know that in Ohio, the result is available in workshop form,
> including a printed handbook for participants to keep, or on the Web:
> http://www.olc.org/ore/.
>
> So my point is that if we are brave enough to face the facts as they really are, then
> we have a shot at improving. If we are afraid to evaluate, then we won't know what
> training or additional resources are needed. And I think it would be better if we did
> a self-evaluation and worked to improve things ourselves, than if we had an outside
> organization "discover" poor service and spread the word to the public.
>
> Just MHO.
>
> Cindy
>
> Jean Meadors wrote:
>
> > I was just curious about the libraries that she sent her students into, I know at
> > our library there are only 2 librarians on staff (1 children's and 1 adult) , the
> > rest of para-professionals. We not only don't have the time to do a great
> > reference interview but also don't have the staff. We do not have a seperate
> > reference desk, patrons come up to the circulation desk to ask for help. So,
> > maybe these libraries have similar problems. No staff, no space and no time to
> > do a really good job. Our paraprofessionals do as good of a job as they can with
> > the training and skills they have.
> > Jean
>
> --
> **********************************************************************
> Cynthia Orr Email: [removed]@cpl.org
> Collection Manager Phone: 216-623-2906
> Cleveland Public Library Fax: 216-623-2977
> 17133 Lake Shore Boulevard
> Cleveland, OH 44110 http://www.cpl.org
> **********************************************************************
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: Joan Ennis <[removed]@selco.lib.mn.us>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 12:00 PM

I agree also. We can be unfreezing a terminal, fixing a printer, fixing the copier,
showing someone how to copy pages, or showing someone how to print
something off the computer!

April Hill wrote:

> Hooray - applause, applause. I totally agree. We have people who walk away because no one is at the desk because we are unjamming a printer, etc., etc.
>
> >>> [removed]@westga.edu 03/21/01 08:35AM >>>
> I work in a medium size library with 3 full time and 1 part time person to
> cover six days and two nights of reference work. Usually only one of us is
> at the Reference Desk at a time. I, at times, am not giving the best
> service I can and I am aware that I am not...I also am aware of the reason
> I'm not (without an evaluating service) It is because I am also
> responsible for overseeing 11 computers - signing people in, re-booting
> frozencomputers, showing people who have never used a computer what to do,
> helping someone use the word processers - all while answering reference
> questions at the Reference Desk. Personally, I think libraries need to
> decide if they are libraries or computer centers - if they are both money
> needs to be found for more staff members so we have time to provide good
> service to all patrons.
> Not really as disgusted as I sound...just tired.
> Carole Elmore
>
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Cynthia Orr wrote:
>
> > I think you're right about most library staff members doing the best they can with
> > meager resources and training, Jean, but I think evaluating service can be a
> > beginning step to getting better training. And with better training, people will buy
> > the best resources they can afford, join lists like this one and generally work to
> > improve things even more.
> >
> > For instance, years ago in the state of Maryland, if I recall correctly, a "secret
> > shopper" approach to evaluating reference service was undertaken. Librarians were
> > very surprised and appalled to learn that the correct answer was received by the
> > "undercover patron" only a little over half the time. Because of that, Maryland, and
> > now many other states, have developed self-training reference modules, and one would
> > hope that reference service has improved greatly even in smaller libraries without
> > many resources. I know that in Ohio, the result is available in workshop form,
> > including a printed handbook for participants to keep, or on the Web:
> > http://www.olc.org/ore/.
> >
> > So my point is that if we are brave enough to face the facts as they really are, then
> > we have a shot at improving. If we are afraid to evaluate, then we won't know what
> > training or additional resources are needed. And I think it would be better if we did
> > a self-evaluation and worked to improve things ourselves, than if we had an outside
> > organization "discover" poor service and spread the word to the public.
> >
> > Just MHO.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > Jean Meadors wrote:
> >
> > > I was just curious about the libraries that she sent her students into, I know at
> > > our library there are only 2 librarians on staff (1 children's and 1 adult) , the
> > > rest of para-professionals. We not only don't have the time to do a great
> > > reference interview but also don't have the staff. We do not have a seperate
> > > reference desk, patrons come up to the circulation desk to ask for help. So,
> > > maybe these libraries have similar problems. No staff, no space and no time to
> > > do a really good job. Our paraprofessionals do as good of a job as they can with
> > > the training and skills they have.
> > > Jean
> >
> > --
> > **********************************************************************
> > Cynthia Orr Email: [removed]@cpl.org
> > Collection Manager Phone: 216-623-2906
> > Cleveland Public Library Fax: 216-623-2977
> > 17133 Lake Shore Boulevard
> > Cleveland, OH 44110 http://www.cpl.org
> > **********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ......................................................................
> > Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> > Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
> >
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: LaVista <[removed]@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 1:34 PM

Barry,
I am one of the students in Dr. Chelton's class whose RA question was
answered soley by the use of Amazon. Before I asked my question at each
library, I used their OPAC's to see what RA resourses were in the library.
Each had several. Additionally, both libraries I went to had access to RA
materials via Suffolk WEB virtual reference which includes "What do I
read next", plus whatever is available on the internet. Suffolk Library
system also offers periodic RA meetings.
Susan LaVista
Westhampton Free Library

FROM: Diana Tixier Herald <[removed]@wic.net>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 3:10 PM

I think this kind of research is extremely valuable. In the 21st century
readers' advisory is becoming one of the most important aspects of
librarianship. It is what our library patrons want. Many libraries still
haven't caught on and are not providing the staffing or the training to
meet these needs. I can't imagine that this kind of assignment would be
given to make local librarians look bad and the librarians who are faced
with this type of question should not take it that way. To go a little
further, we don't decline to provide the assistance an MBA candidate
requests to fulfill an assignment so why would we not want to assist
students who are going into our own profession? Hopefully this kind of
research will increase the expertise readers' advisors throughout the
world as library school graduates who are lucky enough to take these
classes move into the library world.

--
Happy reading,
Di Herald
[removed]@wic.net see the Genrefluent page at
http://www.genrefluent.com
Rosenberg's First Law of Reading "Never apologize for your reading
tastes."

FROM: Viccy Kemp <[removed]@cityofcarrollton.com>
REC'D: 3/21/01, 3:41 PM

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa,
I made reference to Oprah read-alike lists from Library Journal and when I
started looking for them in Library Journal, it dawned on me that they were
actually in Booklist!!
The first list appeared in 1 September 1997.
The second was 1 & 15 June 1999.
The third was August 1999,
and the fourth was in 1 & 15 June 2000.
Boy, is my face red. That's what I get for not checking my sources first.
Hope this helps those who were misled by my early mistake.
Sorry about that!
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the libray wouldn't want 'em!

FROM: pamela m weinberg <[removed]@chipublib.org>
REC'D: 3/22/01, 1:50 PM

Amen! I have a very similar situation and you have said it quite rightly. Libraries could

continue with the computers if each agency had a techie on staff to just handle the
Internet
and other computer issues - college students to whom it is second nature. What a relief it

would be to be a reference librarian again!

Pam Weinberg
Oriole Park Branch/CPL

Carol Elmore wrote:

> I work in a medium size library with 3 full time and 1 part time person to
> cover six days and two nights of reference work. Usually only one of us is
> at the Reference Desk at a time. I, at times, am not giving the best
> service I can and I am aware that I am not...I also am aware of the reason
> I'm not (without an evaluating service) It is because I am also
> responsible for overseeing 11 computers - signing people in, re-booting
> frozencomputers, showing people who have never used a computer what to do,
> helping someone use the word processers - all while answering reference
> questions at the Reference Desk. Personally, I think libraries need to
> decide if they are libraries or computer centers - if they are both money
> needs to be found for more staff members so we have time to provide good
> service to all patrons.
> Not really as disgusted as I sound...just tired.
> Carole Elmore
>
> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Cynthia Orr wrote:
>
> > I think you're right about most library staff members doing the best they can with
> > meager resources and training, Jean, but I think evaluating service can be a
> > beginning step to getting better training. And with better training, people will buy
> > the best resources they can afford, join lists like this one and generally work to
> > improve things even more.
> >
> > For instance, years ago in the state of Maryland, if I recall correctly, a "secret
> > shopper" approach to evaluating reference service was undertaken. Librarians were
> > very surprised and appalled to learn that the correct answer was received by the
> > "undercover patron" only a little over half the time. Because of that, Maryland, and
> > now many other states, have developed self-training reference modules, and one would
> > hope that reference service has improved greatly even in smaller libraries without
> > many resources. I know that in Ohio, the result is available in workshop form,
> > including a printed handbook for participants to keep, or on the Web:
> > http://www.olc.org/ore/.
> >
> > So my point is that if we are brave enough to face the facts as they really are, then
> > we have a shot at improving. If we are afraid to evaluate, then we won't know what
> > training or additional resources are needed. And I think it would be better if we did
> > a self-evaluation and worked to improve things ourselves, than if we had an outside
> > organization "discover" poor service and spread the word to the public.
> >
> > Just MHO.
> >
> > Cindy
> >
> > Jean Meadors wrote:
> >
> > > I was just curious about the libraries that she sent her students into, I know at
> > > our library there are only 2 librarians on staff (1 children's and 1 adult) , the
> > > rest of para-professionals. We not only don't have the time to do a great
> > > reference interview but also don't have the staff. We do not have a seperate
> > > reference desk, patrons come up to the circulation desk to ask for help. So,
> > > maybe these libraries have similar problems. No staff, no space and no time to
> > > do a really good job. Our paraprofessionals do as good of a job as they can with
> > > the training and skills they have.
> > > Jean
> >
> > --
> > **********************************************************************
> > Cynthia Orr Email: [removed]@cpl.org
> > Collection Manager Phone: 216-623-2906
> > Cleveland Public Library Fax: 216-623-2977
> > 17133 Lake Shore Boulevard
> > Cleveland, OH 44110 http://www.cpl.org
> > **********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
> > ......................................................................
> > Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> > Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
> >
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

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