Fiction_L Archives Obsidian Butterfly Dates: 12/6/00,3:24 PM  through  12/9/00,10:54 AM  (10 postings) Search for: Select one or more indexes to search: 2011-current     2009-2010     2004-2008    1995-2003    (Matches from each index will be displayed separately in the results page.) Return to December 2000 thread menu   |    Fiction_L Archives Menu

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FROM: Connie Jo Ozinga <[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us>
REC'D: 12/6/00, 3:24 PM

> Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> violence and sexual content.

Very graphic violence and sexual content is putting mildly. Try rape,
graphic torture and flaying. I was so grossed out I had to put it
down. I certainly had no desire to read more after the first 50 or so
pages.

In a life of reading this was the only book I ever stopped reading
because of disgust like this. (Bad or stupid story, yes, many times.) I
was shocked and surprised by my reaction, more often I put a book down
because it is too sappy. I don't read romances and will never ever read
inspirational / christian fiction.

I originally picked this book up because of a recommendation on this
list, and found it in the YA section at my library.

I think it might be more appropriate to compare Anita Black to
pornography and Eve Dallas to sexy romances. Big Difference.

OK, so this one is on my worst list and Kaite's best list. ANyone else
read it? What's your opinion?

Connie O

Kaite Mediatore wrote:
>
> I'm so glad I keep a reading log every year. It helps when
> this query gets tossed to the list.
>
> In no particular order:
>
> Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson
> A high school student is date raped over the summer and
> when she returns to school no one will speak to her and she
> will speak to no one.
>
> Bud, Not Buddy by Christopher Paul Curtis
> Coretta Scott King and Newbery Awards winner about a boy
> who is searching for his father in Depression Era America.
> His father is supposedly a famous jazz musician.
>
> Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> violence and sexual content.
>
--
*********************************************
Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director
Elkhart Public Library
Elkhart, Indiana
(219) 522-3333
[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us
http://www.elkhart.lib.in.us
*********************************************

FROM: Spencer Ms Martha <[removed]@usmc-mccs.org>
REC'D: 12/6/00, 3:34 PM

Same reasons I don't read James Patterson. Don't like to read graphic
descriptions of people being tortured.

Martha S.
-----Original Message-----
From: Connie Jo Ozinga [[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 1:22 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Re: Obsidian Butterfly


> Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> violence and sexual content.

Very graphic violence and sexual content is putting mildly. Try rape,
graphic torture and flaying. I was so grossed out I had to put it
down. I certainly had no desire to read more after the first 50 or so
pages.

In a life of reading this was the only book I ever stopped reading
because of disgust like this. (Bad or stupid story, yes, many times.) I
was shocked and surprised by my reaction, more often I put a book down
because it is too sappy. I don't read romances and will never ever read
inspirational / christian fiction.

I originally picked this book up because of a recommendation on this
list, and found it in the YA section at my library.

I think it might be more appropriate to compare Anita Black to
pornography and Eve Dallas to sexy romances. Big Difference.

OK, so this one is on my worst list and Kaite's best list. ANyone else
read it? What's your opinion?

Connie O

Kaite Mediatore wrote:
>
> I'm so glad I keep a reading log every year. It helps when
> this query gets tossed to the list.
>
> In no particular order:
>
> Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson
> A high school student is date raped over the summer and
> when she returns to school no one will speak to her and she
> will speak to no one.
>
> Bud, Not Buddy by Christopher Paul Curtis
> Coretta Scott King and Newbery Awards winner about a boy
> who is searching for his father in Depression Era America.
> His father is supposedly a famous jazz musician.
>
> Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> violence and sexual content.
>
--
*********************************************
Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director
Elkhart Public Library
Elkhart, Indiana
(219) 522-3333
[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us
http://www.elkhart.lib.in.us
*********************************************

FROM: Robin Bradford <[removed]@imcpl.lib.in.us>
REC'D: 12/6/00, 3:39 PM

I love this book. This is one of the best books in the series. I think
the sex in this book was WAY down, compared to some of the other books, and
it was more action than anything else. It was gross, I agree, but it is a
SF/Horror book dealing with all kinds of vampires, and other grisly things.
Its not gonna be pretty. I definitely don't think it should be in the YA
section of any library. I don't think this book is comparable to
pornography. But, I guess that is the nature of opinions.


Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: Connie Jo Ozinga [[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:22 PM
To: Fiction_L
Subject: Re: Obsidian Butterfly


> Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> violence and sexual content.

Very graphic violence and sexual content is putting mildly. Try rape,
graphic torture and flaying. I was so grossed out I had to put it
down. I certainly had no desire to read more after the first 50 or so
pages.

In a life of reading this was the only book I ever stopped reading
because of disgust like this. (Bad or stupid story, yes, many times.) I
was shocked and surprised by my reaction, more often I put a book down
because it is too sappy. I don't read romances and will never ever read
inspirational / christian fiction.

I originally picked this book up because of a recommendation on this
list, and found it in the YA section at my library.

I think it might be more appropriate to compare Anita Black to
pornography and Eve Dallas to sexy romances. Big Difference.

OK, so this one is on my worst list and Kaite's best list. ANyone else
read it? What's your opinion?

Connie O

Kaite Mediatore wrote:
>
> I'm so glad I keep a reading log every year. It helps when
> this query gets tossed to the list.
>
> In no particular order:
>
> Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson
> A high school student is date raped over the summer and
> when she returns to school no one will speak to her and she
> will speak to no one.
>
> Bud, Not Buddy by Christopher Paul Curtis
> Coretta Scott King and Newbery Awards winner about a boy
> who is searching for his father in Depression Era America.
> His father is supposedly a famous jazz musician.
>
> Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> violence and sexual content.
>
--
*********************************************
Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director
Elkhart Public Library
Elkhart, Indiana
(219) 522-3333
[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us
http://www.elkhart.lib.in.us
*********************************************

FROM: Viccy Kemp <[removed]@ci.carrollton.tx.us>
REC'D: 12/6/00, 4:09 PM

I enjoyed this book very much. I have loved this series. You have to totally
suspend reality, though, and therefore the sex and violence are just another
part of this alternate universe. I certainly understand why some would not
read it and don't fault them at all. Anita, Jean-Claude and Richard all
struggle with their humanity (or lack thereof), and this is part of the
appeal of the series. I was horrified, however, to see it was in a YA
section somewhere. This is totally adult reading. Just my opinions, I could
be wrong (Dennis Miller).
Viccy Kemp
The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Connie Jo Ozinga [[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:22 PM
> To: Fiction_L
> Subject: Re: Obsidian Butterfly
>
> > Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> > Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> > People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> > (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> > violence and sexual content.
>
> Very graphic violence and sexual content is putting mildly. Try rape,
> graphic torture and flaying. I was so grossed out I had to put it
> down. I certainly had no desire to read more after the first 50 or so
> pages.
>
> In a life of reading this was the only book I ever stopped reading
> because of disgust like this. (Bad or stupid story, yes, many times.) I
> was shocked and surprised by my reaction, more often I put a book down
> because it is too sappy. I don't read romances and will never ever read
> inspirational / christian fiction.
>
> I originally picked this book up because of a recommendation on this
> list, and found it in the YA section at my library.
>
> I think it might be more appropriate to compare Anita Black to
> pornography and Eve Dallas to sexy romances. Big Difference.
>
> OK, so this one is on my worst list and Kaite's best list. ANyone else
> read it? What's your opinion?
>
> Connie O
>
> Kaite Mediatore wrote:
> >
> > I'm so glad I keep a reading log every year. It helps when
> > this query gets tossed to the list.
> >
> > In no particular order:
> >
> > Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson
> > A high school student is date raped over the summer and
> > when she returns to school no one will speak to her and she
> > will speak to no one.
> >
> > Bud, Not Buddy by Christopher Paul Curtis
> > Coretta Scott King and Newbery Awards winner about a boy
> > who is searching for his father in Depression Era America.
> > His father is supposedly a famous jazz musician.
> >
> > Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> > Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> > People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> > (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> > violence and sexual content.
> >
> --
> *********************************************
> Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director
> Elkhart Public Library
> Elkhart, Indiana
> (219) 522-3333
> [removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us
> http://www.elkhart.lib.in.us
> *********************************************
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: Kelly Joyce <[removed]@japl.lib.in.us>
REC'D: 12/7/00, 8:10 AM

>In a life of reading this was the only book I ever stopped reading
>because of disgust like this. (Bad or stupid story, yes, many times.) I
>was shocked and surprised by my reaction, more often I put a book down
>because it is too sappy. I don't read romances and will never ever read
>inspirational / christian fiction.


There are some books that can generate those feelings and for me, it was
Last Exit to Brooklyn and Johnny Got His Gun, both of which haunt me to
this day.

- Kelly

FROM: Cathy Perkins <[removed]@waterville.lib.me.us>
REC'D: 12/7/00, 9:03 AM

I also read the Anita Blake series and am definitely hooked on it. I read
Obsidian Butterfly and it is absolutely adult reading!
I liked the book but I must admit I read it because the characters are
fascinating (ditto the below comments by Viccy Kemp) but I could have done
without soo much violence and gore (whether tied to sex or not). Just me
weighing in with my own
take of the book -

Cathy Perkins
Waterville Public Library
Waterville, ME

Viccy Kemp wrote:

> I enjoyed this book very much. I have loved this series. You have to totally
> suspend reality, though, and therefore the sex and violence are just another
> part of this alternate universe. I certainly understand why some would not
> read it and don't fault them at all. Anita, Jean-Claude and Richard all
> struggle with their humanity (or lack thereof), and this is part of the
> appeal of the series. I was horrified, however, to see it was in a YA
> section somewhere. This is totally adult reading. Just my opinions, I could
> be wrong (Dennis Miller).
> Viccy Kemp
> The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Connie Jo Ozinga [[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us]
> > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:22 PM
> > To: Fiction_L
> > Subject: Re: Obsidian Butterfly
> >
> > > Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> > > Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> > > People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> > > (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> > > violence and sexual content.
> >
> > Very graphic violence and sexual content is putting mildly. Try rape,
> > graphic torture and flaying. I was so grossed out I had to put it
> > down. I certainly had no desire to read more after the first 50 or so
> > pages.
> >
> > In a life of reading this was the only book I ever stopped reading
> > because of disgust like this. (Bad or stupid story, yes, many times.) I
> > was shocked and surprised by my reaction, more often I put a book down
> > because it is too sappy. I don't read romances and will never ever read
> > inspirational / christian fiction.
> >
> > I originally picked this book up because of a recommendation on this
> > list, and found it in the YA section at my library.
> >
> > I think it might be more appropriate to compare Anita Black to
> > pornography and Eve Dallas to sexy romances. Big Difference.
> >
> > OK, so this one is on my worst list and Kaite's best list. ANyone else
> > read it? What's your opinion?
> >
> > Connie O
> >
> > Kaite Mediatore wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm so glad I keep a reading log every year. It helps when
> > > this query gets tossed to the list.
> > >
> > > In no particular order:
> > >
> > > Speak by Laurie Halse Anderson
> > > A high school student is date raped over the summer and
> > > when she returns to school no one will speak to her and she
> > > will speak to no one.
> > >
> > > Bud, Not Buddy by Christopher Paul Curtis
> > > Coretta Scott King and Newbery Awards winner about a boy
> > > who is searching for his father in Depression Era America.
> > > His father is supposedly a famous jazz musician.
> > >
> > > Obsidian Butterfly by Laurell K. Hamilton
> > > Latest entry in the Anita Black, Vampire Hunter series.
> > > People who like Eve Dallas (JD Robb) and/or Stephanie Plum
> > > (Janet Evanovich) may also enjoy Anita. Very graphic
> > > violence and sexual content.
> > >
> > --
> > *********************************************
> > Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director
> > Elkhart Public Library
> > Elkhart, Indiana
> > (219) 522-3333
> > [removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us
> > http://www.elkhart.lib.in.us
> > *********************************************
> >
> > ......................................................................
> > Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> > Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html

FROM: "Sharon Custer" <[removed]@alpha.clarion-net.com>
REC'D: 12/7/00, 9:17 AM

If you think the graphic sex & violence are bad in Obsidian Butterfly,
avoid Kiss of Shadows. The newest book starts a new series in a
different alternate universe. I was unwillingly fascinated by her
characters in Kiss of Shadows. I don't like most of the characters,
but I'll end up buying and reading the books anyway.

Sharon Custer
Eccles-Lesher Memorial Library
673 Main Street
PO Box 359
Rimersburg, PA 16248
(814) 473-3800
FAX: (814) 473-8200
[removed]@alpha.clarion-net.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Viccy Kemp" <[removed]@ci.carrollton.tx.us>
To: "Fiction_L" <[removed]@maillist.webrary.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 5:02 PM
Subject: RE: Obsidian Butterfly


> I enjoyed this book very much. I have loved this series. You have to
totally
> suspend reality, though, and therefore the sex and violence are just
another
> part of this alternate universe. I certainly understand why some
would not
> read it and don't fault them at all. Anita, Jean-Claude and Richard
all
> struggle with their humanity (or lack thereof), and this is part of
the
> appeal of the series. I was horrified, however, to see it was in a
YA
> section somewhere. This is totally adult reading. Just my opinions,
I could
> be wrong (Dennis Miller).
> Viccy Kemp
> The opinions are my own; the library wouldn't want 'em!
>

FROM: Tracey Callison <[removed]@addison.lib.il.us>
REC'D: 12/7/00, 4:48 PM

From: "Connie Jo Ozinga" <[removed]@elkhart.lib.in.us>
>
> Very graphic violence and sexual content is putting mildly. Try rape,
> graphic torture and flaying. I was so grossed out I had to put it
> down. I certainly had no desire to read more after the first 50 or so
> pages.
>
>[snip]
> OK, so this one is on my worst list and Kaite's best list.
> ANyone else
> read it? What's your opinion?

Read it and enjoyed it a lot (although I enjoyed the rest of the series
as well). For myself, although the book did contain graphic descriptions
of sex and violence (sometimes together), it did not dwell lovingly on
them (which is what grosses me out in books). It didn't make me
uncomfortable, as other novels have done (Terry Goodkind comes to mind).

I think part of the reason that I was able to view/read the events
that take place so dispassionately is that the viewpoint of Anita
has changed over the series... as she has become more and more exposed
to horrible scenes, she has become more desensitized to it (as happens
with police officers). This is quite deliberate on L. Hamilton's part -
she mentioned as much at a panel I attended recently. So perhaps
that played a role in making me feel it in a rather low-key way
as well.

Tracey Callison

FROM: "christine jeffords" <[removed]@hotmail.com>
REC'D: 12/9/00, 9:49 AM

Much has been said the last couple of days about the sex and violence in
this book. Now, I haven't read it, so I can't vouch for that personally.
But I think it's worth while remembering that teens (which is what we
usually mean when we say "young adults," though I think the phrase is
misapplied) *like* scary, sexy movies! Why else do they sneak into NC-17's?
Why else do the moviemakers pitch the PG-13's to that market? By far the
vast bulk of them don't seem to take any harm from it. And finding this
sort of thing in a *book,* rather than having it presented in full living
color on a 20-foot-high screen, is much less likely to cause nightmares or
bring about imitative behavior. We don't mind if our teens read
"Frankenstein" or Stephen King; we offer them fact books on sex because we
don't know enough about the subject, or are too squeamish, to answer their
questions. What's the difference?

Just my two cents.

_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com

FROM: J Heuer <[removed]@itol.com>
REC'D: 12/9/00, 10:54 AM

I've read the book and it does have sex and violence and if it were a film
the rating would be way stronger than NC-17 (if they left everything in) but
I wouldn't take it out of a teen's hands if they were interested in checking
it out. And I have to admit these are usually older teens. We just don't
put it in the YA section and by doing that the library is not "endorsing" it
for younger readers. We also don't restrict teens to the YA books and they
browse throughout the collection where they will find books by Laurell
Hamilton and other authors who write even stronger material. If they are
browsing in the adult area I feel they are probably ready to embark on some
different topics. But I cringe (but keep my mouth shut) when I have a parent
with a preteen recommending to that child "Gerald's Game" by Stephen King or
books by John Sandford. I did mention to the parent that these were pretty
strong and had very adult themes but she told me her son was a advanced
reader. I'm never sure where to go from there. Yes, he may be advanced
academically but emotionally? Maybe I'm off base here but it always bothers
me.


--
Jeanne Heuer
Brown County Library
Green Bay, WI
[removed]@itol.com

"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, Art is knowing which ones
to keep." -anonymous
> From: "christine jeffords" <[removed]@hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: "Fiction_L" <[removed]@maillist.webrary.org>
> Date: Sat, 09 Dec 2000 15:42:43 -0000
> To: Fiction_L <[removed]@maillist.webrary.org>
> Subject: Re: Obsidian Butterfly
>
> Much has been said the last couple of days about the sex and violence in
> this book. Now, I haven't read it, so I can't vouch for that personally.
> But I think it's worth while remembering that teens (which is what we
> usually mean when we say "young adults," though I think the phrase is
> misapplied) *like* scary, sexy movies! Why else do they sneak into NC-17's?
> Why else do the moviemakers pitch the PG-13's to that market? By far the
> vast bulk of them don't seem to take any harm from it. And finding this
> sort of thing in a *book,* rather than having it presented in full living
> color on a 20-foot-high screen, is much less likely to cause nightmares or
> bring about imitative behavior. We don't mind if our teens read
> "Frankenstein" or Stephen King; we offer them fact books on sex because we
> don't know enough about the subject, or are too squeamish, to answer their
> questions. What's the difference?
>
> Just my two cents.
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> ......................................................................
> Need to subscribe, unsubscribe, search the archives?
> Everything Fiction_L: http://www.webrary.org/rs/flmenu.html
>

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